Car hire and the new Airport Tax system

[e-richard]

Just to remind you, the Airport Tax system is not a government levy but one imposed by ANA, the airport authority.
And they are a French company.
I rest my case

[Satsuma]

Yes I'm aware of the French company & haven't the tolls got something to do with Spain (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong).

So is it other countries that are ruining Portugal's tourism with the Portuguese government giving them full backing?

[Lesley Jean]

For ourselves and out of season the collection and return is not a problem, my worry is how on earth are they going to cope in July and August???
Also we were told by one of the car reps that if a car is there for more than an hour the company will be fined.

I just think this is going to end up with massive ques of people waiting for their cars in the high season, not a good way to start your holiday.

[Farol]

Just popping out for a long weekend is likely to become a thing of the past

[Polli62]

Not sure whether anyone has seen these links from ANA website explaining about the changes http://www.ana.pt/SiteCollectionDocumen ... _EN_L1.pdf
http://www.ana.pt/SiteCollectionDocumen ... _EN_L1.pdf

[Steen Jakobsen]

Not sure whether anyone has seen these links from ANA website explaining about the changes http://www.ana.pt/SiteCollectionDocumen ... _EN_L1.pdf
http://www.ana.pt/SiteCollectionDocumen ... _EN_L1.pdf

Here is my understanding of the subject;

For anyone whom may wish to investigate the matter further, the accurate details are here: http://www.ana.pt/SiteCollectionDocumen ... _EN_L1.pdf

I quote: "New Tariff per car rental is (VAT included) Vehicles 0-60 min. 9.00 € *
Every 15 min. after the first 60 min. (24:00 – 18:00) ** 1.00 € "

(This is going from a fair, easy to manage flat rate per parking space per year...)

Allowing for flight / luggage / client - delays + allowance for return at agreed return time, a fair average of the rental car being at the parking lot is agreed to be either 1 hour + 90 minutes* **= 15 euro, or the equivalent cost in additional manpower to avoid an excessive period at the parking lot.

The purpose of ANA airports move is obvious; to eliminate free competition in order to privilege a few companies inside the terminal building thus allowing them to set pricing and split profits with ANA through exorbitant rent.

There is only one party to pay the cost of this new policy; ANA airport clients! The car rental companies using P4 make the effort to compete on price and service, the result being some of the lowest car rental prices in Europe. But for how long if ANA Airports is allowed to stipulate cost and conditions?

Reg Faro 27 Fev final_EN_L1.pdf

(314.99 KiB) Downloaded 512 times

[Steen Jakobsen]

Good news is that the P4 car rental companies are in discussion with ANA to facilitate entries/exits, eventually by using the Via Verde transponders in the cars - we are confident that a good solution will be found before the busy season sets in.

You can support this site and common sense by booking a car at: http://www.algarvedriver.com

[Steen Jakobsen]

And while we're at it, another quote from ANA VINCI airports;

There are currently five car rental companies with a permanent office at Faro Airport: Avis, Europcar,
Goldcar, Guerin and Hertz), all duly identified.
Their business model will not change in any way.

Now lets Google "customer satisfaction "company name" car rental at Faro Airport" and have a look at non affiliated top 10 results;

Avis http://www.consumeraffairs.com/travel/avis.html
Europcar http://www.consumeraffairs.com/travel/europcar.html
Goldcar https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.goldcar.com
Guerin http://www.tripadvisor.com.au/ShowTopic ... tugal.html
Hertz http://www.consumeraffairs.com/travel/hertz.html

Their business model will not change in any way.

??? Well, thanks a lot for your concern ANA Airports!

And to make it even better;

Tourism, in which ANA plays such an important role, will also benefit.

Yeah right! Thanks for protecting National interest...

[RichardHenshall]

... the P4 car rental companies are in discussion with ANA to facilitate entries/exits, eventually by using the Via Verde transponders in the cars - we are confident that a good solution will be found before the busy season sets in. ...

[rant]
I'm glad to hear that though I do think that even with the current payment methodology the rental companies, in general, could be trying a little harder to provide good service to their customers, overcoming ANA's hurdles rather than punishing their customers for them and blaming ANA.

The average renter doesn't care how the airport/car-park owner is paid. They just what the car they ordered, at the price ordered, at the time and place ordered, with no silly extras. Whether our airport rental costs 9€ or 15€ extra over a non-airport rental isn't that significant. It's just part of the total cost of getting the service we want.

It was the same with the tolls. The rental companies buried their heads in the sand, waiting for special treatment (why?). Eventually they invested the ~25€ per car and now typically earn 5€ and change (from 15€) extra on every rental but at least the hirer can leave the country without the risk of fines.
[/rant]

[Steen Jakobsen]

The average renter doesn't care how the airport/car-park owner is paid. They just what the car they ordered, at the price ordered, at the time and place ordered, with no silly extras. Whether our airport rental costs 9€ or 15€ extra over a non-airport rental isn't that significant. It's just part of the total cost of getting the service we want.

If the concerned car rental companies just include the fee in their rental prices, it would mean their clients taking delivery outside Faro Airport also pay it - how fair is that? If we don't specify cost in rental calculations how can clients make informed choices?

It was the same with the tolls. The rental companies buried their heads in the sand, waiting for special treatment (why?). Eventually they invested the ~25€ per car and now typically earn 5€ and change (from 15€) extra on every rental but at least the hirer can leave the country without the risk of fines.

I'll bet you any of the companies would be much happier without the administrative burden it is to deal with the tolls, explaining and arguing with clients, adding time to each rental contract.

Why is it that a private small business should just accept to do the job Via Verde are paid to do? A few even unmanned machines at the exit points could take cash and credit cards from users, foreign as well as national. Like everywhere else.

The result today, I believe, is that Via Verde / the concession holder are paid more to collect A22 tolls than the generated revenue.

[Aldo]

Steen is going to see it from the business view point and the property owners are going to have their own views which obviously differ.
We were one of the first to return our car on 1 March after a late Feb break in CVO, and the Car Rental companies did not appear to have a contingency and appeared shocked the levy had actually been enforced on 1 March.

We love Portugal, especially CVO, but are becoming increasingly dismayed at the obstacles which are being put in place to deter tourism. We now use the N125 rather than pay the toll charge because once again, the car rental companies have found a way to profit from this measure, we do not hire a car in summer and take a taxi to and from the airport as the cost of hiring during Jul-Sept is extortionate. Another thread discusses the decline of CVO in the winter months compared to other local towns such as Ferragudo, Alvor and Lagos. Its a shame and I hate to admit we are now considering our options with the property because the Portuguese seem to be making it very hard for no apparent reason, and CVO appears to have become complacent that it can function as a summer town, charging higher prices to the tourists and close up in winter and provide little for the property owners and winter visitors.

Rant over!

[Bruce Wallis]

As much as it pains me, I am forced to agree with alot of the sentiments expressed in this thread, and it surprises me that it should be so.

We go around to the likes of Ferragudo, Alvor and even Amacao de Pera, and they all seem relatively lively, and yet Carvoeiro seems like a ghost town.
It's not that Carvoeiro has suddenly become unattractive, more I think because too many businesses just close up from October until Easter, but the likes of Alvor seem to phase their closures much more so as to offer a more appealing range of facilities throughout the winter.

There are more hotels offering winter packages in Alvor, maybe that has a bearing?

Go up and down Carvoeiros restaurant hill, and there are only one or two restaurants doing good wintertime business, as far as I can see, A Gale and Happys, and they are both well supported by ex-pat residents and golfers.

We still get our Canadian influx, but has the other winter trade died away, or is it that the businesses make so much money during the summer, that they dont need to stay open, running up overheads in the winter?

After all, like us, most of the semi permanent ex-pat population, probably dont eat out more than once or twice a month, and I know that quite a few of us tend to choose Ferragudo to eat out, rather than Carvoeiro.

[Steen Jakobsen]

Now it is going off topic, please use "CVO needs to pull its socks up!" at viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26472 for that debate.

[RichardHenshall]

The average renter doesn't care how the airport/car-park owner is paid. They just [want] the car they ordered, at the price ordered, at the time and place ordered, with no silly extras. Whether our airport rental costs 9€ or 15€ extra over a non-airport rental isn't that significant. It's just part of the total cost of getting the service we want.

If the concerned car rental companies just include the fee in their rental prices, it would mean their clients taking delivery outside Faro Airport also pay it - how fair is that? If we don't specify cost in rental calculations how can clients make informed choices?

From a customer's perspective all that is needed is a reliable quote for the delivery/collection option selected. Whether the rental at the airport is shown as an extra or just included doesn't really matter. If the hirer requests two quotations (airport and non-airport) they'll see the difference, if there is one. The customer didn't know how the airport was paid for parking in P4 under the older systems and shouldn't really need to know about the current or future systems.

Incidentally, I'm surprised that anyone can deliver a car and collect again from a customer's accommodation (which needs 2 cars & 2 drivers & time?) without there being a surcharge (over collection from a depot) but that option is irrelevant for many hirers anyway as often the main reason for hiring is to get to and from the airport.

It was the same with the tolls. The rental companies buried their heads in the sand, waiting for special treatment (why?). Eventually they invested the ~25€ per car and now typically earn 5€ and change (from 15€) extra on every rental but at least the hirer can leave the country without the risk of fines.

I'll bet you any of the companies would be much happier without the administrative burden it is to deal with the tolls, explaining and arguing with clients, adding time to each rental contract.

Why is it that a private small business should just accept to do the job Via Verde are paid to do? A few even unmanned machines at the exit points could take cash and credit cards from users, foreign as well as national. Like everywhere else.

From the motorist's perspective ViaVerde is much simpler than stopping to get a ticket and stopping again to pay on every journey. The complicated bit is the interaction between the hirer and the rental company and convoluted charging systems. AFAIK most rental companies request a blank credit card slip so all tolls could be charged afterwards (if used) at cost plus, say, 5€ (to cover card processing), rounded up to the nearest 5€ or cost plus 10€ without rounding (though that seems greedy).

The result today, I believe, is that Via Verde / the concession holder are paid more to collect A22 tolls than the generated revenue.

I would suspect that in a substantial number of cases the rental company is charging more to collect A22 tolls than the actual tolls incurred.

None of these comments are aimed at any particular rental company, just at (P4) rental companies in general.

[bugsey]

I know everyone has gone further into the topic than my original post about returning the car at 3.30am. Just to let you know I did return it and was met by a YOR employee before I could get a ticket to enter P4.