Baby Changing

[kennycapes]

like the post fmm

I can see that you feel strongly about it. Although i can't see how you fit into both camps. your reply consisted of 10% smoking and 90% babies.

People that want a quiter evening perhaps can also chose where to eat.

I do agree though fmm that parents should step upto the mark. Kids crave attention and when out i hate it when kids are crying or running around and the parents ignoring it apart from a quick glance over and a quick shot to "stop running"

Kids can't just sit there for hours like we like to do. This year we plan to take Samuel (2 years old) out about 6:30pm ish and then end up somewhere for a couple of superbocks (for me that is) where Sam can have a quick run around and then off to bed about 8:30pm.

fmm, have a great holiday next time your out there.

[fmm]

Sorry - will rant a bit about smoking now!
Trouble is, most of the restaurants I go to have very considerate smokers, so not too much to rant about. A high percentage go onto the pavement to smoke, even when the tables are in the open air!

I choose restaurants that do not have too many wild looking children in them, but sometimes I feel they follow me around. I have a lovely meal at maximes which could have been even better without the three toddlers belting around, wiping their sticky hands on me, inspecting my food, screaming etc. They lay themselves open to having more children as they supply DVD players at the tables, and give the children small gifts and sweets when they leave. A great ploy to get return business from people with children, but a real turn off for people who want to go out for a nice meal. Having said that, I will go again on my next visit to Portugal.

I think your plan is great. That was the way it worked for my son. An hour of being good, followed by some fun time before bed. Then everyone is happy!

I think that part of the problem is that it is such a hike with pushchairs up and down the hills of Cvo, that once people get there they want to make it worth their while.

Anyway - I am looking forward to my next fleeting visit in September for a weekend - bringing my mother over this time to see whether she likes my new investment.

Honestly, I have no problem with children, I think it is the parents that give me the most cause for concern!

[Ellie]

Ahhh but fmm, theres a deal of difference between the Portuguese attitude towards children and the UK one.
The Portuguese are warm and welcoming with kiddies..it is natural to them. Whereas in UK, children are 'tolerated'.

I know from my few years of living in Algarve, that children will be up late at night..very late in the hot summer monthswhen no one can sleep.
They played in the streets beneath our apartment window till well after 10 pm, and in the high heat of August I've seen them playing in the park in Lagoa at Midnight.
When I dine at Casa Do Pao(CVO), the owner's young children have often been there until closing time.
So you say the owners of Maximes encourage children by giving them sweeties etc...but you see, its their natural way..children are inclusive;they are not considered a nuisance..the family is all.

But personally, if my kiddies were small again, I would not be out late at night with them. They had a 'bedtime'..and if you can find a babysitter, all well and good, then you will have time to yourselves to enjoy good luck

[Graham]

The challenge is to find a restaurant that is open at 6pm - most don't seem to want to know you until 7pm at the earliest.

Maybe another list for Michael to compile - I can start you off with O' Salmao (which according to their menu ONLY welcomes chuldren until 8.30pm) and Villa Medici (which is often full with families by 7pm)

In fact, last time we were there, by 7pm Villa Medici were so full they were turning guests away whilst the rest of the restaurants were still just opening - perhaps the others have something to learn here - get kid friendly, make them come early and then you get all your tables back again for a second sitting at 8pm

[fmm]

I've no problem with children playing until late at night (just as well as where my apartmet is backs onto the football pitch!).

We are also opposite Villa Medici and you are so right - they are always heaving with families very early in the evening. They have a great little undercover area with little chairs and tables at the back and when I bring my son over we will definitely go there for dinner a few times.

As a final note - it is the ENGLISH children that I am moaning about, not the Portuguese, German, Dutch etc (unless, of course, the rest of Europe conduct their meals speaking English which is always possible!)

[Ellie]

Oh come on now, I don't think thats quite fair. You trying to tell me that all English kiddies on holiday in Algarve are the worst behaved?
I could tell you different.

[fmm]

Not necessarily Ellie! Just that there are more of them (their parents are often worse) and if I can understand them then they must be speaking English!

I am not sure Cvo always attracts the best of English in August. This was my first time in Cvo in August (have been in Silves before now). It was apparent to me that I am old and obviously prefer the quieter months.

[Ellie]

Well maybe if we treated our children better here in UK, in that restaurants and other public areas were more welcoming towards our children, then they would become more used to dining out and feel comfortable?
From my own experience with my kiddies (and now grandchildren), they usually get mischievous,unruly when they're tired and not in their usual routine?

[fmm]

I think that would probably make a difference. Children who don't see their parents from one evening to the next suddenly get undivided attention on holiday and it blows their brains!

And your comment about routine is exactly where I am coming from with the bored and tired children being kept up 3 hours past their normal bedtime just so the parents can enjoy themselves. It is almost like having continuous jetlag for them - no wonder they get grumpy!

I have never had a problem with taking Toby to any restaurant in the UK (nice ones and horrible ones) but he is an only child and has never been allowed to get away with anything. I think if I had two children I would find it MUCH harder.

[White Rabbit]

As a mum , and long time child minder , I no longer rely on or expect baby change in any bar restaurants or hotels. The best things is always to carry one of the little cheap foldaway baby mats , both boots and mother care do them , some baby bags have them attached.That way if you have to change little one , on toilet floor , bonnet of car , train seat , your lap , back seat of coach ( we did on way up to Alto !! ) , then at least little one is kept germ free. You cant always guarentee this with changing facilities in places you visit, but you know how clean your mat is. Good luck , if you need any baby or child advise while out here please message me.

[White Rabbit]

Just in case those of you who are living in Portugal and visiting havent noticed , a lot of the Portuguese children are out very late at night. They play on the beaches , go to the restaurants where their parents work , and are basically part of the NORMAL scenary of summertime Algarve. This is completely natural , I am English , I live here and have children here , and we fit into the Algarvian way of life as much as possible , so why shouldnt tourists keep their children up late. I know how difficult it is to get babysitters on holiday , not everyone has the money to pay the hourly fee exspecially if they have more than one child, and if you go on holiday with your children then why try to get rid of them when you go out. If you can afford it and are able to have a meal out great if you are not, who cares , the Portuguese love the children , very few restaureants dont welcome children. SO my advise to mums and dads , take them with you if you want , make sure you have pens, paper , gameboy etc to keep them occupied both for your sanity and common courtesy to other diners. And for those of you who dont like children around when you eat, check out the restaurant first , or book outside the school holidays . Have a good one

[fmm]

If the normal way of life in the Uk is to have them in bed by 8pm, then why should they stay up until 10pm on holiday. Sorry - I don't think I should have the date of my holidays dictated by a few people who are incapable of controlling their children. As I have said all along, I have no problem with children who are capable of sitting for an hour in a restaurant. But I get fed up with parents who expect everyone else to be amused by the antics of their children. I don;t suggest that parents have to find babysitters - perhaps they should consider eating before 9pm and then the problem won't arise? Or go on a Mark Warner holiday ...


The point I am making is don't change the routine in such a major way as it is bound to lead to disaster.

[pm]

Because they are on holiday! Why on earth shouldn't children stay up late. They are people too you know.

Personally I wouldn't be too fussed about nappy changing in a restaurant. Especially if it is just a soggy one. And especially if the restaurant is full of possibly English people having a fag.

Right bunch of Victor Meldrews in this forum

[fmm]

Whatever. I assumed that we could all have a view.
I have a 5 year old and I have certain standards which mean that he should not encroach other people's space when in an adult environment. i.e. a restaurant in the evening.

But of course, outnumbered here, so you must be right.

But one last thing. The children I saw were grumpy and tired and were only staying up late because it suited their parents. The well behaved children were conversing happily with parents and having fun and were obviously NOT tired.

Hey ho.

[pm]

Whatever. I assumed that we could all have a view.
But of course, outnumbered here, so you must be right.

Now you are acting tired