Estate agents, lawyers (split topic)

AFKA1 · Post by **AFKA1** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:44 pm

Bruxinha wrote:I see a lot of Algarve lawyers just communicating by vague e-mails and sending scrappy bits of paper to people with their costs on and sometimes not even an engagement letter

With you on that one Bruxy you just described my Lawyer to a T!

Bruxinha wrote:I would say the majority of people in the past, who bought here just came because they wanted to live here, not to increase their bank balance.

And that one.........some move out for health reasons too.Money isn't everything tbbr!

tbbr wrote:I admit to not knowing a large number of permanent algarvian ex pats but I would have thought that after reading not just this other forums and hearsay we would have heard much more of the problems etc..

Or maybe you are hearing but not really listening?

tbbr · Post by **tbbr** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 8:12 pm

Its a fact that in over 15 visits vary between 3 days and 2 weeks we have NOT heard one comment or description of events or circumstances as described on this forum.
Maybe we have just been lucky.

I agree that there will be many and varied reasons why people move BUT if it was more , expensive or even the same price as the UK the Algarve would be an empty place.

Which I know many would prefer.

maddi · Post by **maddi** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:34 pm

Hi tbbr and others

I never think, when this conversations appears every so often, that people are saying "don't move to the Algarve they are all sharks" - what people on here try to do is make sure that those who are thinking of moving there are aware of the pitfalls as well as numerous advantages - they are being realistic.

In every country (I would imagine as I haven't visited them all yet) there are things to guard against - whether it is a dodgy beaurocracy or the presence of a grrumbling volcano. And sometimes those who are in the know feel they have a duty to point people in the right direction - it isn't to put people off but to ensure they get the best possible deal/service, etc,.

If you were moving a 100 miles west then I would be the one telling you which areas to avoid, which Solicitors have iffy reputations, which estate agents under or over value and which developer built right over the tin mines in which village - that may be gossip but I wouldnt take the chance!

Maddi

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:15 pm

tbbr wrote:Maybe we have just been lucky

I hope you have been lucky tbbr...... some people don't know they have been had with their pants down until it's too late

....... I think this is the point Bruxy and Nightrider are making.

tbbr wrote:Its a fact that in over 15 visits vary between 3 days and 2 weeks we have NOT heard one comment or description of events or circumstances as described on this forum.

Nightrider also made a comment about Lawyers and Estate Agents being in together. I experienced something similar a few months back at the signing of the deeds to our place, both my lawyer and the vendors lawyer wanted us to say that there was no Estate Agent involved in the deal,which there clearly was because the Estate Agent showed us round the property a property which he had a for sale sign on!

When we arrived at the signing of the deeds (unannounced) there was a person from the Estate Agents there with the two lawyers, who all just happened to turn up in in the same car! I am not saying they were doing anything illegal , But it all seemed very strange! I can't really see why a representative of the agents would need to be there!

If we had not been there our Lawyer (who had POA ) would have signed to say no Estate Agent was involved, even though he knew full well there was!

When we would not let him sign the deeds until the Estate Agents name was put on them there was a very heated debate between us and the two Lawyers, the Vendors (an elderly couple) did not know what was going on
and they also said that an Agent was involved. All this went on in front of the Notary and in the end she demanded that the deeds be changed to include the Estate Agents name........at which point the person from the Estate Agents left in quite a hurry!

We asked our Lawyer if he would be happy signing a document on our behalf which he knew not to be true, we didn't get an answer from him but the vendors Lawyer started banging his fist on the table and shouting about how much money we had cost his client because now they would now have to pay tax ! It made me wonder if it was just his clients having to paying tax that he was so angry about..........or if the ripples we started would cause a wave somewhere down the line!

AFKA1 · Post by **AFKA1** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:17 pm

Above was me.........forgot to sign in

tbbr · Post by **tbbr** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:28 pm

Question,

Why does the estate agents name have to be on the paperwork?
The contract is between the buyer and seller.
The agent is paid by the seller after the sale.

The buyer has no legal relationship with the agent.

If this is legal necessity in Portugal Why ?

All good information for the future.

Is there anyone out there who has not had any problems ?????

Bruxinha · Post by **Bruxinha** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:43 pm

Yes, it is required by law tbbr. It was brought in over a year ago. I don't have the precise date and law number to hand, but I am sure I can find it. I assume it is because so many agents were not putting the sales in their books and, therefore, not declaring their commissions for tax purposes etc. We all know and as many books written about buying property here will tell you, the national sport of Portugal is tax fiddling.

For sure there are people, who haven't had problems. But I see so many dodgy documents, I do wonder what the percentage is.

I wish everyone, who wishes to move to Portugal in 2006, every success and if you follow the tips, which some of us talk about, you hopefully willl have a lot less chance of someone catching you with your pants down, as AFKA1 put it.

Feliz Natal.

tbbr · Post by **tbbr** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:51 pm

Many thanks,

Will keep everything we have heard in mind as and when we start to see documentation.

tbbr · Post by **tbbr** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 3:52 pm

Just another thought.

Tax EVAISION id illegal but tax AVOIDENCE is not.

Where does off shore purchases come into this.

Surely if the Portugues want to really get tax back they could tackle this way of avoiding tax.
Why else buy offshore ??

kteee · Post by **kteee** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 4:06 pm

They have already tackled offshore properties in black listed areas with punitive rates of IMT and IMI.

In the past it was very difficult to get a mortgage from a Portuguese bank if you were not resident here, it was often only possible to get a mortgage from Abbey National, Jyske Bank etc. They couldn't have a charge on a Portuguese registered property and therefore insisted it was owned by an offshore company so they could retain ownership of the shares in the company as security.

nightrider · Post by **nightrider** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 6:21 pm

TBBR,
ref: Poss Lawyers/Estate Agents/Builders etc connections:-
I am sorry but given your constant postings about various properties and/or land developements which appear to be from one end of the Algarve almost to the other etc etc etc.....I fail to see why you need to continue to repeat yourslef.....i.e.are you trying to convince yourself or others that what you are doing is ok..... I personally have strongly advise you (as I would others) to be very careful what your doing and I do not believe that I and others can be on this public forum anymore clearer to you than that.
Nightrider
ps In order to assist you further you may recall some 6 weeks or so ago that I asked you two questions, but I note that you have never replied!