Portuguese Nominee Holdings Companies

[Guest]

I brought my property about 6 yrs ago which is in an Offshore WHITE listed haven and if I sell, and the purchaser only wants to purchase in their name I would be subject to 25% CG's. But apparantly, this can be improved, by transferring it to Portugal and setting up a Portuguese Nominee small holding Company, which on sale would be only 10% CGs as opposed to the present 25%CGs. Prior to the senting up of the company I am advised, your property is re-valued by an architect employed by the company you instruct to deal with the transfer at today's or whenever the transaction is carried out value. If this is correct, it would assist any property/owner whose property for whatever reason may have been originally under devalued.

Has anyone already done this and if so can you let me know the following and any other information.

1. On re-valuation do you receive a new VIP/rating increase?

2. Do you have to be a resident of Portugal.

3. On sale, do you have to delcare the sale of your share on
an "Individual" tax return ?


Thank you.

[biffa]

The 10% rate is only if you transfer the shares. A sale of the property will create a larger tax charge as it will always be calculated on the escritura value when the company bought the place.

If you are whitelisted I can't see the sense in making a move at this stage.

We all have to pay taxes anyway.

There is a way to increase the tax department value on sale if that would help.

[Guest]

Thank you for taking the trouble to reply:-.

Present position:-

White listed and if sold the shares changed hands and attract zero taxes in Portugal.

However, If would be purchasers do not wish to purchase an offshore company in a whitelisted area, but say into the their names this would atttract CG's at 25% based on the original price on the escritura.(deed)

as against:-

The sale of the shares of a Portuguese Nominee Small Holding Company which attracts only 10% CG's.

When transfering from an offshore company (whitelisted) to a Portuguese NSH company, we have been advised that the transfering company here in Portugal use a private architect to value your property at today's market value.
Therefeore, any furture purchaser must buy the Portuguese NSH Company Shares and by doing so the seller only attracts 10% CG's.However, if the purchaser wishes to purchase in their names
the original value on the deed will apply at 25% CG's.

The transfer fees would be in the region of £5000.00.

How present management company's fees/taxes 1000.00 pa approx.

We would only be prepared to sell our shares in the Portuguese Nominee Small Holding Company.

Because of our particular position, we are considering whether to leave our company in its present white listed situation. If in the furture a would be purchaser does not wish to buy the shares. Then we can offer the alternative of a Portuguese NSH Co/Shares. The only problem we cold foresee would be a possible delay of transfer (4months?) or could it be achieved quicker than this! (We are in Delaware).

Lastly we are advised that once the new Portuguese Nomiee Holding Company is fully compliant in Portugal, it can be sold the next day.

I welcome your views on the above and also the last sentence of your posting as it seems to be agreeing with what we have been told to date.
Thanks.

[Guest]

Thank you for taking the trouble to reply:-.

Present position:-

White listed and if sold the shares changed hands and attract zero taxes in Portugal.

However, If would be purchasers do not wish to purchase an offshore company in a whitelisted area, but say into the their names this would atttract CG's at 25% based on the original price on the escritura.(deed)

as against:-

The sale of the shares of a Portuguese Nominee Small Holding Company which attracts only 10% CG's.

When transfering from an offshore company (whitelisted) to a Portuguese NSH company, we have been advised that the transfering company here in Portugal use a private architect to value your property at today's market value.
Therefeore, any furture purchaser must buy the Portuguese NSH Company Shares and by doing so the seller only attracts 10% CG's.However, if the purchaser wishes to purchase in their names
the original value on the deed will apply at 25% CG's.

The transfer fees would be in the region of £5000.00.

Our present management company's fees/taxes 1000.00 pa approx.

We would only be prepared to sell our shares in the Portuguese Nominee Small Holding Company.

Because of our particular position, we are considering whether to leave our company in its present white listed situation. If in the furture a would be purchaser does not wish to buy the shares. Then we can offer the alternative of a Portuguese NSH Co/Shares. The only problem we cold foresee would be a possible delay of transfer (4months?) or could it be achieved quicker than this! (We are in Delaware).

Lastly we are advised that once the new Portuguese Nomiee Holding Company is fully compliant in Portugal, it can be sold the next day.

I welcome your views on the above and also the last sentence of your posting as it seems to be agreeing with what we have been told to date.
Thanks.

Amendment to original posting:

[martin]

yikes ..what a nightmare...all this just to buy a house!!!

[Gazza]

It would interesting to know the volume of sales of whitelisted companies since the new rules came into force. Are buyers deterred by the offshore factor?

G

[nightrider]

It would interesting to know the volume of sales of whitelisted companies since the new rules came into force. Are buyers deterred by the offshore factor?

G

It suited some pockets very nicely to scaremonger over Offshore Companies. But providing your Offshore Company is in a Whitelisted Country such as Malta or Delaware and several others around the world, nothing has changed, to perhaps when it was say in Gibralter. I suspect Gibralter was blacklisted because it belongs to GB and GB has a double taxation agreement with Portugal.

Many Portuguese who own property hold it in Maderia which is Whitelisted.

The problem also has arisen, that many estate agents staff appear not to understand the difference between a Whitelisted OffShore Company at zero rate of taxes and that of a Blacklisted Offshore Company which attracts 25% of C.Gains to the seller.

I am told that the sales are gradually getting back to as they were before and this would appear to suggest... that would be purchasers are now receiving correct and therefore sensible advice.

But as the above Guest has highlighted there is always the option of a Portuguese Nominee Small Holding Company.

Hope this posting is of some interest.

[nightrider]

yikes ..what a nightmare...all this just to buy a house!!!

Hi Martin,
What actual has happened, many up to around 2002, were sweet talk into by estate agents and lawyers to place their property into Offshore Companies. One it did not attract tax and two it avoided inheritance tax. Since that period the inheritance tax has been abolished in Portugal and for whatever reason many properties were under declared, many owners not being aware of this situation until the law changed in 2003 blacklisting such locations as Gibralter.
The tax burden to pay back i.e. the actual owners wishing to buy back the company in their names and pay the tax to Portugal,found they could not afford it. The offshore company therefore and by way of example in Gibralter had to be moved to a whitelisted country example Delaware. If it remained in say Gibralter which became blacklisted then a hefty pa tax is charged.

If a new purchaser doesn't wish to purchase an offshore whitelisted company the seller has to pay 25% of the profit, in otherwords lets say someone under declared their property when they purchased it stating the value was in sterling £100.000 and today it is worth £350.000 the CG's would be on the profit 25% payable by the seller

A Portuguese Small Nominee Holding Co would be 10% CG's on the profit payable by the seller.

But really providing the company is correctly managed by a reputable management firm and the offshore company is in a Whitelisted location, it is still a very good deal/purchase.

Trust I have not bored you.

Regards Nightrider.

[Guest]

Hi , I was about to buy a property with the help of a bank Mortgage (50-50)..when the offer arrived it turned out they would not lend on off shore regardless that it was white.

This could make it a little harder for owners to sell now unless the property is bought on shore

[nightrider]

Hi , I was about to buy a property with the help of a bank Mortgage (50-50)..when the offer arrived it turned out they would not lend on off shore regardless that it was white.

This could make it a little harder for owners to sell now unless the property is bought on shore

Hi Guest,

The fact that an asset "a property" is held in an offshore WHITE listed country makes no difference, as the mortgage lender holds the Share Certificates.

Therefore, if you would care to pm me with the lender that has given you this information, I will have it look into. Nightrider.

[Guest]

Thank you , The morgage lender was Banif , I then spoke with Barclay and other banks that told me they where not leading on offshore Companies

[Guest]

I must say Banif where very helpfull and good, LOL I just need to find another property now.which is on shore

[Homme Poco]

I´ve got an "on shore" property for sale.
If you want to PM me some contact details,willsend you all the blurb.
(Can a guest PM?)
HP

[Guest]

Hi Homme Poco

My email is kim@manston-village.co.uk

[nightrider]

Thank you , The morgage lender was Banif , I then spoke with Barclay and other banks that told me they where not leading on offshore Companies

Dear Anonymous Guest,

Having checked on your above information today.

I am advised that a lot depends on the circumstance of the borrower.
I.e. Each application being considered on it's merits and the fact that an asset "the property" is held in shares via a White Listed Offshore Company is irrelevant.

Nightrider.