Lawyer

guestt · Post by **guestt** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:00 pm

We used a Lawyer in Carvoeiro who, the day before the signing of the Deeds in Lagoa wanted a second cheque for the IMT as he had made the first application out in my partner's name and not in joint. We were told by his secretary that we would be refunded the first amount within 1 - 2 days. Before the actual signing of the deeds (which the solicitor couldn't be bothered to attend and sent the estate agents secretary to handle) he informed us that it would take 3 - 4 months to obtain a refund - it looks like our €9,500 have gone into an interest account for a while to earn the government some interest.

We were told by the bank that we could not stop the cheque as it was illegal and the authorities could not rip up the first cheque as it had to go through the system even though the application was wrong. And now he wants €1500 + VAT for his (secretary's) effort. We have told him he can get paid when we receive our refund.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:11 pm

Thank you all for your time and Help........Kim

DaveK · Post by **DaveK** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:57 pm

Guest

We used Dr Idalio Coehlo - phone 282 340190. Recommended by a local freind. Speaks excellent English and we found he was very efficient given the fact that when our purchase was going through in October 2003 there was a rush to bring off shore properties back on shore prior to the changes in tax legislation. Getting hold of a Notary ??

Notary · Post by **Notary** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 3:30 am

I don't think that it would be such a good idea, even if you spoke excellent Portuguese, to handle a purchase on your own. You might get by doing a sale without a lawyer.

Bruxinha · Post by **Bruxinha** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:54 am

You have a point if you don't speak good Portuguese Notary. But I personally wouldn't use one to buy a property, as I can do it quite competently myself and would feel a lot safer. Interestingly, most Portuguese don't use lawyers to buy a property.

However, what I would suggest for foreign purchasers is to by all means use a lawyer or solicidor if you feel happier to do so, but go yourself with a Portuguese speaking friend or official translator to do the checks alongside yourself. They are fairly easy to do and at least that way you know your lawyer and the agent, if you use one of those too, aren't blagging you

I did it recently for some friends buying here. A visit to the land registry, finanças, câmara and notary to get all the documents and volia after 2 or 3 days I had everything for us to check over and any queries were then put to the lawyer for clarification and kept him/her on their toes to know that we were also on the ball.

Peace of mind is all what is about isn't it at the end of the day?

Bruxinha · Post by **Bruxinha** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:06 am

Guestt have you made a complaint to the lawyer's governing body here in Portugal the "Ordem dos Advogados" regarding his incompetence and neglect? Go to www.oa.pt for contact address etc. I believe they accept complaints in English, if you don't write Portuguese. The head person is called a Bastionário by the way.

Are you saying that your lawyer, who you employed and have a bill to pay fees to, did not attend the final deed signing at the Notary? Are you certain what he is telling you about the IMT application is correct and where the money is actually sitting at the moment? Do you have an official engagement letter from him? I strongly suggest you take further action on this, as sounds a disgrace to me. Too right...keep his fees until you are satisfied.

Happy to assist if you register and pm me.

nightrider · Post by **nightrider** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:08 am

Hi Notary,

I do not believe that anyone is saying "do not use a lawyer", in that it would be unfair to judge "all" as the same. But again I say to you that I and others have personal knowledge of a multitude of pretty disgraceful complaints and help where we can, which sadly an ever increasing number feel totally alone and helpless to do anything about. and sometimes of course involves being able to afford another lawyer to sort out the mess caused by another in their ranks.

Are you aware that a Portuguese Lawyer, cannot may a complaint against another to his regulatory body on behalf of his/her client, even it would appear, if it invloves an unlawful act.

I really to not mean any disrespect, but may I kindly draw your attention to such sayings which are oh so true "Closed Shop" , Hitting a Brick Wall etc etc etc

As I understand it, in so far as Lawyers, the Ordem dos Advogados are asking all it's members to update all their details. This is going to be interesting and I am watching their Public Listings with interest. Frankly, I could spilt my sides with laughing, if the matter was not so very serious.

Check who your dealing with Check again and the office they say they are dealing from, if your not sure how to seek the information you want come and ask me. (Free of Charge).

Nightrider.

PLEASE. Folks be careful out there.

nightrider · Post by **nightrider** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:14 am

Hi Guestt,

I have been considering what you posted and was going to reply, but I see Bruxinha already has, so I will butt out.

Gary/Gaynor · Post by **Gary/Gaynor** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 1:05 pm

You can always look on Legal 500 - www.icclaw.com. Not saying that it does any good as it seems pure luck than judgement from what I'm reading on the forum. We had a pretty good time with our Lawyer, all went very smooth, perhaps that was also luck.

At least the Legal 500 gives you an overview on companies and their Lawyer's specialist practice areas. I have to consult Legal 500 almost everyday as I'm in Legal Pubishing.
Just a thought anyway, good luck all out there looking for Lawyers, it's not always a pretty picture
Gaynor

nightrider · Post by **nightrider** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 1:51 pm

Hi Gaynor,

I am quite sure that you will not disagree that the Legal 500 Listing is only as good as those displayed are adhering to what they are obliged to do by their respective regulatory body.

For example the British Consulate display a list of lawyers in Portugal, but if something was to go wrong and then brought to this department's attention, that by displaying, they are recommending, I believe that the answer would be something like "that they only do so in Good Faith".

So no matter what the subject of any Listings, it cannot and should not be soley taken as the gospel that someone will act in your or my best interest and I can assure you that I and many others have had to learn the hard way. Luckily for my family and I we could well afford to ride the storm, but others have not been in a position to be so lucky and it is those that I have deep concern for.

In so far as your "good luck" on your purchase, of course I am unaware of the type of property you purchased?

I.e. Most of the problems we have become aware of invlove the larger buildings and land i.e. apartments in well established blocks and well planned new developments, seem "touch wood" to cause little problems. But of course I would not suggest that there are none.

Regards Nightrider.

Gary/Gaynor · Post by **Gary/Gaynor** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:28 pm

Yes totally agree, Legal 500 is a handy tool for getting at least a brief outline on company background ie, size of company, local practitioner, European or International practitioners etc etc

I would never advise anyone to assume it's a guide to high standards in practitioner law.

Ours was a new build in Carvoeiro, which, talking with Brux the other day when we were out for lunch with Elle and crew, we were lucky with the Legal side of things. She went on to explain some of the land or old property purchases can be a mine field.
It's just like trying to find a decent plumber that won't piss in your water tank.

Gaynor

nightrider · Post by **nightrider** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:39 pm

Gaynor,

Do you think Lawyers have water-tanks.....a very

has just come into my head about taking our two GSD's for a walk when it gets dark....anyone care to join me

Bruxinha · Post by **Bruxinha** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:53 pm

Might that not be considered cruelty to animals Nightie?

Hi Gaynor. So I see you are back in Holland. I read about your crisp morning cycle rides to The Hague...sounds nice now, but just wait until November comes.

Hope to see you and Gary for a wine or two again next time you are here and catch up on some more "Mumbles" chat.

Sorry...back to the lawyers topic...they seem to be breeding in Carvoeiro I noticed whilst walking around the town the other day. On checking some of them out on the lawyer's website, hardly any of them actually had their principal address as Carvoeiro, but Messines, Silves, Albufeira etc etc. I suppose a lot of them are seeing rich pickings down there and so are setting up another office

Gary/Gaynor · Post by **Gary/Gaynor** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 3:05 pm

HI there Brux, yep deffinately will catch up on another drink. Didn't really get much chance to talk one on one over lunch. Couldn't get to the Forum Thursday drinkies as family arrived.

Gary and I will be out in December so will try and get up to the Algar Sec' for a drink with some Forum members unless they decide to change venue....keep up the good work, what with all that useful advise you put on the forum, you could give some of our Lawyers a run for their money

G and G

Bruxinha · Post by **Bruxinha** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 3:20 pm

Look forward to it...I'll have a drink or two for you this evening when I am up there.

Yer, I know, I am a glutton for punishment. It's a tough job but someone's got to do it.

I have always liked a challenge.