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Where are the buyers going to come from?
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elle
You sound like my youngest lad Bruxhy......he's convinced the 'nomad' way of life is how we're 'meant' to be.. and that 'settling down' (I don't like this phrase either..)...is a little like a slow death (he's rather dramatic at times 
)...
In our 'quite long' marriage we've moved house about 15/16 times and both H and I admit we don't really have a sense of 'belonging' anywhere really..
we've lived in lovely houses..rented flats..rented aparts & villa in Algarve..lived in caravans twice...and in a camper van for some months,living 'on the road' ( I liked this..met so many people..interesting experience)...
Lived in London..Kent/Sussex border...Essex...Lake district...quite a bit of time in France...now here in Lincs...not forgetting 2 and half years in Algarve..
but must say the place I feel most 'at home ' in is Algarve....ellie
)...In our 'quite long' marriage we've moved house about 15/16 times and both H and I admit we don't really have a sense of 'belonging' anywhere really..
we've lived in lovely houses..rented flats..rented aparts & villa in Algarve..lived in caravans twice...and in a camper van for some months,living 'on the road' ( I liked this..met so many people..interesting experience)...
Lived in London..Kent/Sussex border...Essex...Lake district...quite a bit of time in France...now here in Lincs...not forgetting 2 and half years in Algarve..
but must say the place I feel most 'at home ' in is Algarve....ellie
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shanagarry
- CVO Legend
- Posts: 2048
- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 7:26 pm
- Location: Craigweil-on-Sea
Hi Bruxhinha
Point taken - we have been coming to Cvo for 20 years and only 'bit the bullet, and bought our place 7 years ago. There is never a day goes by that we do not hanker after a permnent life in Cvo. We spend about 8 weeks throughout the year in Cvo and wish it could be more.
Living and working in a fast moving dynamic economic climate is something you become 'used' to. It is not until you experience the alternative that you realise the existence of a balancing force.
The question is - will Portugal ever become a dynamic economic power and what will it take to make it happen?
In the meantime we feel that having the opportunity to drop everything and drive to Gatwick or Bournemouth - we can be in Cvo inside 6 hours. For now that works really well and creates nice unexpected breaks.
Friends tell us the horror stories when trying to deal with Portuguese bureaucracy - something I am sure I will have a personal difficulty with (not being endowed with the virtue of patience). Hopefully we can put all the components in place along the way and we might just avoid a fall-out when the time arrives.
As for West Sussex today - it is Ladies Day at Goodwood, the rain has stopped and we have some sunshine but it is only 17 degrees. I noticed some rain on the Cvo.com web-cam this morning - what's all that about?
Point taken - we have been coming to Cvo for 20 years and only 'bit the bullet, and bought our place 7 years ago. There is never a day goes by that we do not hanker after a permnent life in Cvo. We spend about 8 weeks throughout the year in Cvo and wish it could be more.
Living and working in a fast moving dynamic economic climate is something you become 'used' to. It is not until you experience the alternative that you realise the existence of a balancing force.
The question is - will Portugal ever become a dynamic economic power and what will it take to make it happen?
In the meantime we feel that having the opportunity to drop everything and drive to Gatwick or Bournemouth - we can be in Cvo inside 6 hours. For now that works really well and creates nice unexpected breaks.
Friends tell us the horror stories when trying to deal with Portuguese bureaucracy - something I am sure I will have a personal difficulty with (not being endowed with the virtue of patience). Hopefully we can put all the components in place along the way and we might just avoid a fall-out when the time arrives.
As for West Sussex today - it is Ladies Day at Goodwood, the rain has stopped and we have some sunshine but it is only 17 degrees. I noticed some rain on the Cvo.com web-cam this morning - what's all that about?
No...I've had enough now Digs...
Yawning...did you have too much wine at lunch
Thanks for the compliment Ellie..."like my youngest son"...hmmm...I suspect he's a bit younger than me and entitled to be dramatic.
Gosh...you've moved about more than I have...it all sounds very interesting and fun. Despite having blood from "The Roma" I've never lived in a caravan. I quite like the idea or maybe in a tent...but I think I am a bit of a fake nomad, as I can't do without hot and cold running water and a hairdryer for too long
Hope to see you in your "home" soon
Yawning...did you have too much wine at lunch
Thanks for the compliment Ellie..."like my youngest son"...hmmm...I suspect he's a bit younger than me and entitled to be dramatic.
Gosh...you've moved about more than I have...it all sounds very interesting and fun. Despite having blood from "The Roma" I've never lived in a caravan. I quite like the idea or maybe in a tent...but I think I am a bit of a fake nomad, as I can't do without hot and cold running water and a hairdryer for too long
Hope to see you in your "home" soon
shanagarry
I hope you don’t think I was yawning at your post! I like this topic but cant get in the mood for any indepth contribution.
Bruxi, I gave up drinking at lunchtime two years ago. Having said that, my brother comes to visit tomorrow so I may be temped by the midday refreshments over the next week or so.
I hope you don’t think I was yawning at your post! I like this topic but cant get in the mood for any indepth contribution.
Bruxi, I gave up drinking at lunchtime two years ago. Having said that, my brother comes to visit tomorrow so I may be temped by the midday refreshments over the next week or so.
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Guest
The Truth
I have followed this topic for a while now and had hoped that the real reason for the high levels of development would have come out in the various exchanges between the various parties.
It was not until I read Shanagarry's point - if there was any chance of Portugal becoming a 'Dynamic Economic Power' that I felt I should add my tuppence worth.
Whether Portugal will become or aspires to become a power in anything is not a matter they are having too much say in - Brussels has taken care of that. By expanding the EU it has created an Us and Them - the Us being the founder members - them being the newer ones. Portugal is perceived by the 'poorer' newer members to be an affluent society - I know the reality is something different.
Running in parallel with that is the simple fact that the once high powered EU Gravy Train that fed the founder members has now run out of fuel and is instead being pulled by a very under-powered steam train - that is losing more of its power by the day.
The recent referenda in France and Holland are testament to a serious wind change. Here in the UK, Blair is fully aware that he will be deafened by a resounding NO from the British Electorate were he to consent to a referendum. The fury we feel when we see our taxes squandered on payments/aid to non deserving causes is heightened when we see our old people and hospitals deprived of essential funds for services they are entitled to - intensifies by the day.
The money seriously squandered on a futile and unprovoked war against a country that cannot defend itself is now manifesting itself in the defence of our towns and cities. The wasteful cost of all this could have been avoided and the money used for more meaningful purposes.
This all leads to a very straightforward conclusion - Brussels is losing its authority and as such has little money to dole out to those who once took it for granted. Portugal being one of those - their money now going to Lithuania and all points east.
What do they do to replace that income?
Increase indirect taxes to begin with - the Vat hike earlier this month being the opening shot. Building more property for 'estrangeiros' to invest in will generate significant amounts of money - relax planning rules to facilitate large scale developments that will attract more tax euros. Very simple and effective strategy that will creep up on all of us.
If the Portuguese have the 'somebody else will deal with it' mentality then development will never be detected or prevented. We will eventually realise that another 'Spain' has been created right under our noses with all the attendant issues - crime, congestion, pollution etc.
The pace of change will be accelerated by TV programmes that suggest you invest in The Algarve as it is the safest and most secure home for your money to be. Make no mistake that alone will generate a fair volume of investment activity - not just those purchasing property but the crooks who pedal schemes to separate unsuspecting souls from their money. We will then have to endure the bad press that will undoubtedly follow this. It's a vicious circle.
So my friends - what can be done about this? Very little - because once self-interest politicians see the opportunity to raise their profile and preside over a growing GDP - the rest of us and our needs are insignificant. Regretfully development will pervade our little piece of paradise and its surrounding area - the infra-structure to support it will have an even greater impact.
For now let's enjoy what we have
It was not until I read Shanagarry's point - if there was any chance of Portugal becoming a 'Dynamic Economic Power' that I felt I should add my tuppence worth.
Whether Portugal will become or aspires to become a power in anything is not a matter they are having too much say in - Brussels has taken care of that. By expanding the EU it has created an Us and Them - the Us being the founder members - them being the newer ones. Portugal is perceived by the 'poorer' newer members to be an affluent society - I know the reality is something different.
Running in parallel with that is the simple fact that the once high powered EU Gravy Train that fed the founder members has now run out of fuel and is instead being pulled by a very under-powered steam train - that is losing more of its power by the day.
The recent referenda in France and Holland are testament to a serious wind change. Here in the UK, Blair is fully aware that he will be deafened by a resounding NO from the British Electorate were he to consent to a referendum. The fury we feel when we see our taxes squandered on payments/aid to non deserving causes is heightened when we see our old people and hospitals deprived of essential funds for services they are entitled to - intensifies by the day.
The money seriously squandered on a futile and unprovoked war against a country that cannot defend itself is now manifesting itself in the defence of our towns and cities. The wasteful cost of all this could have been avoided and the money used for more meaningful purposes.
This all leads to a very straightforward conclusion - Brussels is losing its authority and as such has little money to dole out to those who once took it for granted. Portugal being one of those - their money now going to Lithuania and all points east.
What do they do to replace that income?
Increase indirect taxes to begin with - the Vat hike earlier this month being the opening shot. Building more property for 'estrangeiros' to invest in will generate significant amounts of money - relax planning rules to facilitate large scale developments that will attract more tax euros. Very simple and effective strategy that will creep up on all of us.
If the Portuguese have the 'somebody else will deal with it' mentality then development will never be detected or prevented. We will eventually realise that another 'Spain' has been created right under our noses with all the attendant issues - crime, congestion, pollution etc.
The pace of change will be accelerated by TV programmes that suggest you invest in The Algarve as it is the safest and most secure home for your money to be. Make no mistake that alone will generate a fair volume of investment activity - not just those purchasing property but the crooks who pedal schemes to separate unsuspecting souls from their money. We will then have to endure the bad press that will undoubtedly follow this. It's a vicious circle.
So my friends - what can be done about this? Very little - because once self-interest politicians see the opportunity to raise their profile and preside over a growing GDP - the rest of us and our needs are insignificant. Regretfully development will pervade our little piece of paradise and its surrounding area - the infra-structure to support it will have an even greater impact.
For now let's enjoy what we have
The Truth
For some reason the post did not pick up my id.
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Guest
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tbbr
As apartment owners for two seasons and vistors 4-5 times year are we put off by the continuing developments, the concerns over drought, beurocracy and infrastructure.
NO !!.
We can leave work on friday 2.30pm and by 8.15 pm be sitting down to dinner.
Do we see 100,s of empty unsold apartrments on these new developments
NO!!.
Can we get on a golf course when we want NO !!
Are the town centres and shopping centres quiet NO !!
Can we drive for just a few K and inland and find oeace and quiet.
Of course we can.
I think that it is time that some of the " longer term " residents accepted that " their Algarve " is changing .
For what ever the reasons and inducements larger scale developments are here to stay.
A survey last year in the UK revealed that at least 50 % of over 50,s who can afford it wan,t to buy a home abroad, for holidays etc.
Rather than say " if you can,t stand the heat etc " the future will present many oportunities not just economic to improve the standard of living, facilities, infrastructure.
It will never be Benidorm , those days are over.
Todays buyers are the same peaple who turned Benidorm into what it is to day and they don,t want to live in Benidorm.
NO !!.
We can leave work on friday 2.30pm and by 8.15 pm be sitting down to dinner.
Do we see 100,s of empty unsold apartrments on these new developments
NO!!.
Can we get on a golf course when we want NO !!
Are the town centres and shopping centres quiet NO !!
Can we drive for just a few K and inland and find oeace and quiet.
Of course we can.
I think that it is time that some of the " longer term " residents accepted that " their Algarve " is changing .
For what ever the reasons and inducements larger scale developments are here to stay.
A survey last year in the UK revealed that at least 50 % of over 50,s who can afford it wan,t to buy a home abroad, for holidays etc.
Rather than say " if you can,t stand the heat etc " the future will present many oportunities not just economic to improve the standard of living, facilities, infrastructure.
It will never be Benidorm , those days are over.
Todays buyers are the same peaple who turned Benidorm into what it is to day and they don,t want to live in Benidorm.
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shanagarry
- CVO Legend
- Posts: 2048
- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 7:26 pm
- Location: Craigweil-on-Sea
The Now - The Real World
tbbr
Well said - the words of common sense and reality.
Well said - the words of common sense and reality.
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Guest
Sorry "tbbr"you defeat your own agrument in that the Algarve nor Carvoeiro requires as you state the very "people" who turned Benidorm into what it is today "tacky", loud and without taste.
With regard your comment that there are no apartments for sale----I am not sure where you are getting your figures from.... but there are many for sale and why because the owners cannot let them...therefore you obviosuly have not read the newpapers here in the Algarve with regard the slump in tourisum etc. I.e. Builders are only to willing to drop their prices for a quick sale.
With regard your comment that there are no apartments for sale----I am not sure where you are getting your figures from.... but there are many for sale and why because the owners cannot let them...therefore you obviosuly have not read the newpapers here in the Algarve with regard the slump in tourisum etc. I.e. Builders are only to willing to drop their prices for a quick sale.
I know I said a few posts ago that I had had enough on this topic...I lied...I find it interesting. So I am going to butt in again if I may.
Don't know if Carvoeiro will become Benidorm or not but I do think the likelihood is that it will change considerably in the near future. It has changed considerably over the last 30 years...you only have to look at the photos archived on this website. The roads in and out of Carvoeiro were dusty donkey tracks. Two wonderful examples of what can go wrong (in my opinion) are Quarteira and Armação de Pêra...just keep looking out to sea and don't turn around.
I think therefore, it is understandable that the older residents, who have been here for a number of years feel sad about what is happening to "their lovely Algarve" and nostalgic for Carvoeiro as it was. They feel very protective of it and fearful of what lies ahead. It is the same with people, who live in green belt areas in the UK, which become threatened by large scale development. I think some of these people are already considering a move East, West, Inland, Alentejo, France etc. Some will stay put of course and enjoy it still and others will stay put and complain. Being born in London and a city girl at heart I am well used to a load of concrete and having neighbours close by. Silves, as you can imagine, took a bit of getting use to and I still find it weird. However, I know other people, who can't stand having a neighbour within 1km of them. I like to have both. We are of course all different and it is good to experience different environmnents.
Those, who are currently living in the UK or other Northern Europeans countries and have only been visiting Carvoeiro relatively recently and thinking of relocating, can only see what they see now and many will think great...loads of complexes, lots of facilities, pools, golf courses etc, plus sun and beaches...yipeee...utopia!!!!
The bottom line is I suppose...where there are human beings there will be greed and self interest and if there is money in it...it will happen.
The thing that worries me, is the current crop of programmes on TV about moving abroad. They seem to be very one sided i.e. everything is great, everything is easy, you can get loads of rental income, it is a great investment...blah...blah...blah...blah. I think it would be more responsible if they showed both sides of the coin i.e. what people should consider, the difficulties and possible dangers, the benefits of long term renting to get used to your new environment and seeing if it right for you and much more advice about learning the language, integrating with the society and the structure of the country.
Don't know if Carvoeiro will become Benidorm or not but I do think the likelihood is that it will change considerably in the near future. It has changed considerably over the last 30 years...you only have to look at the photos archived on this website. The roads in and out of Carvoeiro were dusty donkey tracks. Two wonderful examples of what can go wrong (in my opinion) are Quarteira and Armação de Pêra...just keep looking out to sea and don't turn around.
I think therefore, it is understandable that the older residents, who have been here for a number of years feel sad about what is happening to "their lovely Algarve" and nostalgic for Carvoeiro as it was. They feel very protective of it and fearful of what lies ahead. It is the same with people, who live in green belt areas in the UK, which become threatened by large scale development. I think some of these people are already considering a move East, West, Inland, Alentejo, France etc. Some will stay put of course and enjoy it still and others will stay put and complain. Being born in London and a city girl at heart I am well used to a load of concrete and having neighbours close by. Silves, as you can imagine, took a bit of getting use to and I still find it weird. However, I know other people, who can't stand having a neighbour within 1km of them. I like to have both. We are of course all different and it is good to experience different environmnents.
Those, who are currently living in the UK or other Northern Europeans countries and have only been visiting Carvoeiro relatively recently and thinking of relocating, can only see what they see now and many will think great...loads of complexes, lots of facilities, pools, golf courses etc, plus sun and beaches...yipeee...utopia!!!!
The bottom line is I suppose...where there are human beings there will be greed and self interest and if there is money in it...it will happen.
The thing that worries me, is the current crop of programmes on TV about moving abroad. They seem to be very one sided i.e. everything is great, everything is easy, you can get loads of rental income, it is a great investment...blah...blah...blah...blah. I think it would be more responsible if they showed both sides of the coin i.e. what people should consider, the difficulties and possible dangers, the benefits of long term renting to get used to your new environment and seeing if it right for you and much more advice about learning the language, integrating with the society and the structure of the country.
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elle
without being patronising...you speak so much good sense Bruxhy and anyone contemplating a move to Algarve would do well to heed your sound advice!..
Not pushing for sales(well only a little ) but my book is exactly about that...the big move..selling up and taking that chance....
and the pifalls and wonderful times that go along with such a venture..
as it turned out..we were glad we only 'rented' during a couple of years as when the big recession happened in Europe we know for sure wewouldn't have sold..only at a terrible loss..
and I back Bruxhy's advice (and I know Digs feels the same) to rent for a good while..get the feel of things before you go headlong into the big move...
we know (from bitter experience) what its like to be virtually homeless..and if we make the move again.....
we would keep something here in UK 'just in case'..even if its just a tiny 1 bed flat..
Im a London girl too...and sometimes I hankered for it when in Algarve...on a previous post Bruxhy spoke of the 'homesickness' many suffer after a while...
I saw it with 2 women friend of mine..they cried a lot!....
it hit me too.. a few times...but I kept my crying to myself..and as Bruxhy says..you can come out the other side..which I did
If you can go thru that and come out..you'll be tougher......
and i wish all of you contemplating the big adventure......all the luck in the world
ellie
Not pushing for sales(well only a little
) but my book is exactly about that...the big move..selling up and taking that chance....and the pifalls and wonderful times that go along with such a venture..
as it turned out..we were glad we only 'rented' during a couple of years as when the big recession happened in Europe we know for sure wewouldn't have sold..only at a terrible loss..
and I back Bruxhy's advice (and I know Digs feels the same) to rent for a good while..get the feel of things before you go headlong into the big move...
we know (from bitter experience) what its like to be virtually homeless..and if we make the move again.....
we would keep something here in UK 'just in case'..even if its just a tiny 1 bed flat..
Im a London girl too...and sometimes I hankered for it when in Algarve...on a previous post Bruxhy spoke of the 'homesickness' many suffer after a while...
I saw it with 2 women friend of mine..they cried a lot!....
it hit me too.. a few times...but I kept my crying to myself..and as Bruxhy says..you can come out the other side..which I did
If you can go thru that and come out..you'll be tougher......
and i wish all of you contemplating the big adventure......all the luck in the world
ellie
Thanks for that Ellie...you words weren't patronising at all. In fact, my good old mate Gambo told me the other day that I often come across as a bit patronising...sorry for that if I ever do...it really isn't intentional. Probably a mixture of being an ex school teacher and an only brat...no siblings to put me in my place
I just say it as I see it. I have no axe to grind with anyone and no vested interests in the Algarve, although I think I am a lot more diplomatic on the forum than you will find me in the flesh.
I just want people to have good, honest, open and constructive advice and I am passionate about protecting people from the unscrupulous behaviour of others. Many people work really hard to save up the money to come and live in the Algarve or the Costas etc, hoping for a better life. A number achieve that but unfortunately an awful lot also get given a load of old baloney at best or at worst stitched up and nearly ruined.
I once had the idea of trying to set up a type of citizens advice bureau, especially for foreigners but was told by a Portuguese "professional" that it wouldn't be legal and I would be shut down...I wonder why
Oh well...nice that there are people like you, Digger and others, who bother to give people helpful advice and considered opinions...I suppose we are like a CAB between us all aren't we
Look forward to getting hold of your book...plug it away...why not...better stop now, or we will be accused of having a "love-in"
I just say it as I see it. I have no axe to grind with anyone and no vested interests in the Algarve, although I think I am a lot more diplomatic on the forum than you will find me in the flesh.
I just want people to have good, honest, open and constructive advice and I am passionate about protecting people from the unscrupulous behaviour of others. Many people work really hard to save up the money to come and live in the Algarve or the Costas etc, hoping for a better life. A number achieve that but unfortunately an awful lot also get given a load of old baloney at best or at worst stitched up and nearly ruined.
I once had the idea of trying to set up a type of citizens advice bureau, especially for foreigners but was told by a Portuguese "professional" that it wouldn't be legal and I would be shut down...I wonder why
Oh well...nice that there are people like you, Digger and others, who bother to give people helpful advice and considered opinions...I suppose we are like a CAB between us all aren't we
Look forward to getting hold of your book...plug it away...why not...better stop now, or we will be accused of having a "love-in"