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EURO ????
Point taken.dodger wrote:English language skills are dismal in Germany/France?What about foreign language skills in Great Britain?!Virtually non existant!!!!
If us in GB go into a cafe/shop abroad and they don't speak english we think its the end of the world!
Nevertheless, english was voted common language yet the efforts to bring english language up to standard in say Germany are nearly non-existent. IMO it would be a huge step towards a unified Europe if we all were equipped to communicate in one common language.
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Guest
I have an economic background, and own property in cvo so heres my two cents worth....Portugal will continue to suffer from the infaltionary effects of joining the euro, goods and services will continue to get more expensive AND taxes will rise...faster than other EU member countries since Portugal has a huge deficit relative to its GDP which has to be corrected or mor penalties will be imposed by the EU.
There is only one economic way out and that is for Portugal to get working...right from the ground up...wages are low (and wage inglation is low) so any industry where goods can be made (assembled in Portugal) taking advantage of cheap labour/ govt (EU) incentives and exported will generate more internal investment, higher employment and a better feeling of prosperity. This applies mainly to the North since there is nothing in the south other than tourism..ie no industry as such. The competition in that respect is the former eastern bloc.
For the Algrave one has to hope that tourists will return once the euro weakens - it has given back some of the recent gains vs sterling and the dollar but could do with getting back more towards dollar parity and 62p ish. This would generate more interest from British buyers of property who for the last year and a half have been encouraged to buy in Bulgaria / former Eastern bloc / Cyprus etc as real estate values are far cheaper than Algarve. One has to only look at the extent of building that is going on along the coast and the volume of properties that are for sale to realise that property prices aren't going up in euro terms. More likely british buyers will buy in GBP and only convert GBP to euro when they complete. I am sure that the onshore / offshore effect of the last 18 months has cost Portugal dear, since real estate investment has crashed.
There is one other way out - and that is the complete failure of the euro. Already the money markets are pricing in a differential between Italian and German bonds...theoretically they should be the same price as they are both members of the same happy family. Recent tension of the whole EU budget process will rumble on for some time, as far as I can see the euro can only weaken from here over the next few years so hopefully the worst is over and the Portugese investment climate will improve. Whetehr house prices improve or not who knows...all I can say is that for me the shine has gone off the whole area...the people are still very friendly but the area is no longer what is was.
There is only one economic way out and that is for Portugal to get working...right from the ground up...wages are low (and wage inglation is low) so any industry where goods can be made (assembled in Portugal) taking advantage of cheap labour/ govt (EU) incentives and exported will generate more internal investment, higher employment and a better feeling of prosperity. This applies mainly to the North since there is nothing in the south other than tourism..ie no industry as such. The competition in that respect is the former eastern bloc.
For the Algrave one has to hope that tourists will return once the euro weakens - it has given back some of the recent gains vs sterling and the dollar but could do with getting back more towards dollar parity and 62p ish. This would generate more interest from British buyers of property who for the last year and a half have been encouraged to buy in Bulgaria / former Eastern bloc / Cyprus etc as real estate values are far cheaper than Algarve. One has to only look at the extent of building that is going on along the coast and the volume of properties that are for sale to realise that property prices aren't going up in euro terms. More likely british buyers will buy in GBP and only convert GBP to euro when they complete. I am sure that the onshore / offshore effect of the last 18 months has cost Portugal dear, since real estate investment has crashed.
There is one other way out - and that is the complete failure of the euro. Already the money markets are pricing in a differential between Italian and German bonds...theoretically they should be the same price as they are both members of the same happy family. Recent tension of the whole EU budget process will rumble on for some time, as far as I can see the euro can only weaken from here over the next few years so hopefully the worst is over and the Portugese investment climate will improve. Whetehr house prices improve or not who knows...all I can say is that for me the shine has gone off the whole area...the people are still very friendly but the area is no longer what is was.
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TBBR
Euro
Its does seem to me that it will be the smaler countries like Portugal, Greece and even Spain who will continue to lose out.
They no longer have the currency adavntage vs the eastern block and far east.
What has happened to shoe and clothes production ( clarkes have NO uk production of any size ) the new volume producers are in China.
If you are buying property in Portugal in GBP then it is still good value , the political climate is stable and the beaurocracy no worse than most southern europeans.
If your income ( Pension ) is in GBP then again the picture is not too bad.
But unless the Portuguese can find a way of rebuilding their economy the infrastructure will not improve, roads, energy, water supplies will struggle to meet demands.
Perhaps those who look back twenty years and believe life was better in what was one of the poorest countries in Europe ( for the Portuguese ) will find those days returning.
They no longer have the currency adavntage vs the eastern block and far east.
What has happened to shoe and clothes production ( clarkes have NO uk production of any size ) the new volume producers are in China.
If you are buying property in Portugal in GBP then it is still good value , the political climate is stable and the beaurocracy no worse than most southern europeans.
If your income ( Pension ) is in GBP then again the picture is not too bad.
But unless the Portuguese can find a way of rebuilding their economy the infrastructure will not improve, roads, energy, water supplies will struggle to meet demands.
Perhaps those who look back twenty years and believe life was better in what was one of the poorest countries in Europe ( for the Portuguese ) will find those days returning.
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Guest
They need a Mag Thatcher here........until all this heavy heavy beaurocracy is wiped out.......and as one Portuguese friend said to me yesterday..that wont happen as long as one Portuguese is still here.......the only way is down for the Portuguese economy.....you are right when you say..its lost its shine....the people have a big peoblem in that Portugal does not work.....I'm in the Tourist industry and I can tell you I hear every day why many wont come back..and its usually the lack good service and high cost....I have seen operators shout at tourists to stand in line etc etc in a very hostile way....as for running a business here and employment...if you can help it dont....unless you want enless frustration ..enless lines to stand in and want to lose lots of money.Portuguese are the worst payers I have ever known in my life. Stick to the UK customer base and Villa rentals etc..........Shame really isnt it....
Signed...An Ex manufacturer that gave up and now rents Villas..couldnt get paid and went bust....
Signed...An Ex manufacturer that gave up and now rents Villas..couldnt get paid and went bust....
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Guest
I think Blairs right..that EU is too set in its ways..that countries like France are still over protecting their farmers..
we need to modernise..and I also agree with him that if people want to work longer hours they should be free to do so..
think Europe will and is losing out to cheap manufacturing in China..they sell stuff to us for peanuts (cos of their poorly paid workforces) and we buy for peanuts..
and look at most of our call centres now....mostly based in India...
Think Europe in general seems in a bit of a state at moment.....
Im not terrible enthused by politics at the moment but out of it all I believe we have the best leader and certainly best chancellor
thats my 2 pennyworth
ellie.. forgot to log in
we need to modernise..and I also agree with him that if people want to work longer hours they should be free to do so..
think Europe will and is losing out to cheap manufacturing in China..they sell stuff to us for peanuts (cos of their poorly paid workforces) and we buy for peanuts..
and look at most of our call centres now....mostly based in India...
Think Europe in general seems in a bit of a state at moment.....
Im not terrible enthused by politics at the moment but out of it all I believe we have the best leader and certainly best chancellor
thats my 2 pennyworth
ellie.. forgot to log in
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Guest
Yep...it always comes back to the 2 things that people "bleet on" about here on the forum; bureaucracy and corruption.
Some Portuguese may say, well if don't like it go back to where you came from, but many of them don't see that there is a sizeable number of people here, who are trying to help boost the economy and want to help Portugal.
I have folks here who pay quite a considerable amount of rates. They have no objection to this nor to paying ALL taxes etc that are legally due. What they do object to are the far too many people living around them that don't want to pay anything.
In their area there are several illegal properties, owned both by Portuguese and foreigners who don't pay a bean, as well people building huge places without permission on ecological land, usually at weekends, so the council aren't on duty to stop them. These people then sink boreholes without permission, which brings us back to the water dilemmas here.
This together with extremely complacent and apathetic local authorities and tax offices in dealing with the evaders and cheats makes it a very sorry state of affairs.
Some friends of mine decided to buy a small, old cottage to renovate as a hobby and to hopefully make a small profit on when it is eventually sold. Due to the bureaucracy, the delays and people avoiding giving them proper invoices they will probably run at a loss. Who wins? No one. They won't bother renovating another cottage, thus not employing local labour and buying form local suppliers and Portugal won't gain from the taxes via the sale and purchase!
Some Portuguese may say, well if don't like it go back to where you came from, but many of them don't see that there is a sizeable number of people here, who are trying to help boost the economy and want to help Portugal.
I have folks here who pay quite a considerable amount of rates. They have no objection to this nor to paying ALL taxes etc that are legally due. What they do object to are the far too many people living around them that don't want to pay anything.
In their area there are several illegal properties, owned both by Portuguese and foreigners who don't pay a bean, as well people building huge places without permission on ecological land, usually at weekends, so the council aren't on duty to stop them. These people then sink boreholes without permission, which brings us back to the water dilemmas here.
This together with extremely complacent and apathetic local authorities and tax offices in dealing with the evaders and cheats makes it a very sorry state of affairs.
Some friends of mine decided to buy a small, old cottage to renovate as a hobby and to hopefully make a small profit on when it is eventually sold. Due to the bureaucracy, the delays and people avoiding giving them proper invoices they will probably run at a loss. Who wins? No one. They won't bother renovating another cottage, thus not employing local labour and buying form local suppliers and Portugal won't gain from the taxes via the sale and purchase!
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tbbr
In just a few weeks the picture has changed again.
The pound which then bought 1.46 euros today will get you only 1.38 euros a drop of over 9%.
Not good if you have a property to sell ( it costs your UK buyer more ) or you rely on the tourist £.
But the real loser continues to be the Portugues economy unless they import from the UK.
Non EU imports are usuually Dollar based and with the mighty dollar improving by over 10% , fuel and most commodities will rise in price.
Life sure gets tedious don,t it. " hoagy carmicheal ?? "
The pound which then bought 1.46 euros today will get you only 1.38 euros a drop of over 9%.
Not good if you have a property to sell ( it costs your UK buyer more ) or you rely on the tourist £.
But the real loser continues to be the Portugues economy unless they import from the UK.
Non EU imports are usuually Dollar based and with the mighty dollar improving by over 10% , fuel and most commodities will rise in price.
Life sure gets tedious don,t it. " hoagy carmicheal ?? "