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Villa Manager
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shanagarry
- CVO Legend
- Posts: 2048
- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 7:26 pm
- Location: Craigweil-on-Sea
Villa Management
Clearly there is a huge issue with trust here - or rather lack of it. We have been with our Villa Manager for 5 years and have never had reason to question her integrity.
We have friends living in Cvo and have asked them to go and have a look on occasions but they never found anybody who shouldn't be there.
We live within 40 minutes drive of Gatwick and I have on a few occasions this year taken a cheap EasyJet flight and arrived unnanounced and never found any unwelcome guests.
I would suggest that anybody with a management integrity fear undertakes some serious checks prior to appointing a management company.
A suggestion that might work is for the Forum to offer a facility for registered users to access a classified list of both reliable and known not so reliable management companies for the members to use. To remove any exposure to somebody being libelled - the system could direct the enquirer to make direct contact.
Similarly, some enterprising resident might like to offer a roaming service to alert non resident property owners to any unauthorised occupation on provision of a letting list.
Just a thought......
We have friends living in Cvo and have asked them to go and have a look on occasions but they never found anybody who shouldn't be there.
We live within 40 minutes drive of Gatwick and I have on a few occasions this year taken a cheap EasyJet flight and arrived unnanounced and never found any unwelcome guests.
I would suggest that anybody with a management integrity fear undertakes some serious checks prior to appointing a management company.
A suggestion that might work is for the Forum to offer a facility for registered users to access a classified list of both reliable and known not so reliable management companies for the members to use. To remove any exposure to somebody being libelled - the system could direct the enquirer to make direct contact.
Similarly, some enterprising resident might like to offer a roaming service to alert non resident property owners to any unauthorised occupation on provision of a letting list.
Just a thought......
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London Boy
Villa Manager
How much is a fair charge for a weekly visit to see if the property is occupied?
I for one would be interested. I trust my villa manger implicity, but having read this thread, I too have become somewhat paranoid. Having said that the villa managers have a lot loose. If I caught mine 'at it' I would name and shame them as I have all of their clients e-mail address plus I think I could legitamately use this site to publicise the fact.
However a small charge would be worth the pice of mind.
I for one would be interested. I trust my villa manger implicity, but having read this thread, I too have become somewhat paranoid. Having said that the villa managers have a lot loose. If I caught mine 'at it' I would name and shame them as I have all of their clients e-mail address plus I think I could legitamately use this site to publicise the fact.
However a small charge would be worth the pice of mind.
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shanagarry
- CVO Legend
- Posts: 2048
- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 7:26 pm
- Location: Craigweil-on-Sea
Villa Occupancy Management (VOM)
I don't think it is a matter of a weekly cost - it is more to do with finding somebody with the commitment to do it and do it honestly. Otherwise you are back where you started.
I would suggest that a small business could be established where the owner offers a service, outside of the arrangement with the Villa Management company, to spot check on a predetermined basis (with the owner) to visit the premises and speak to any 'unauthorised' occupants. The cycle of spot-checking would as standard be twice a week - additional visits/activity could be offered.
The owner would provide the VOM with an occupancy list (updated as soon as bookings are made) together with details of the Villa Management arrangement - e.g. has the villa manager the authority to let the villa - if it is not on the reservation list.
It would be essential for this condition (spot-check) to be written into the conditions agreed with the villa management to avoid any unpleasant reprecussions.
If during a spot check it is apparent that the villa is occupied when it should be empty, a text message to the owner to establish the rightful position. In the event the occupancy is not authorised, the VOM approaches the occupants to get full details of their arrangement.
The fee to provide this service to cover mobile phone charges, e-mail and car costs and assuming the volume is sufficient could be as little as Euro 5 per week.
Finding somebody who is not a villa management organisation or linked to one to provide the service is the hard part. Clearly it would have to stand up to an organisational audit to make sure there are systems and processes in place to ensure the job is being done - properly.
Is there anybody out there with the enterprising skills to get this off the ground?
I would suggest that a small business could be established where the owner offers a service, outside of the arrangement with the Villa Management company, to spot check on a predetermined basis (with the owner) to visit the premises and speak to any 'unauthorised' occupants. The cycle of spot-checking would as standard be twice a week - additional visits/activity could be offered.
The owner would provide the VOM with an occupancy list (updated as soon as bookings are made) together with details of the Villa Management arrangement - e.g. has the villa manager the authority to let the villa - if it is not on the reservation list.
It would be essential for this condition (spot-check) to be written into the conditions agreed with the villa management to avoid any unpleasant reprecussions.
If during a spot check it is apparent that the villa is occupied when it should be empty, a text message to the owner to establish the rightful position. In the event the occupancy is not authorised, the VOM approaches the occupants to get full details of their arrangement.
The fee to provide this service to cover mobile phone charges, e-mail and car costs and assuming the volume is sufficient could be as little as Euro 5 per week.
Finding somebody who is not a villa management organisation or linked to one to provide the service is the hard part. Clearly it would have to stand up to an organisational audit to make sure there are systems and processes in place to ensure the job is being done - properly.
Is there anybody out there with the enterprising skills to get this off the ground?
I would hate to by the fly in the soup here, but if such a service were provided, who is to say that that would not double backfire?
Suppose the villa verifiers (or whatever you want to call them) contact the manager and let them know that they have been hired to surveil a given property. This would give them both carte blanche to really start abusing the property - aside from receiving the fee from the houseowner, the surveilance could then also charge a fee on illegal rentals in return for ensuring that there will be no unwanted visitors during a given period.
In turn, the manager could rent out the property with a highly reduced risk of getting caught.
Management is all about trust - after all, you are handing over the keys to your property along with quite a bit of cash to keep everything up to speed.
What you really need, is a no-bullshit evaluation of the management companies at your disposal. On the other hand, the problems don´t start with the manager, do they? They already start with the purchase - how many people get duped when buying a house or a plot?
Example: Poeple get promised by an estate agent, that they would be able to make a good 10K p.a. profit on a given property by renting it out, later on they realize, that with reasonable occupancy they are only taking home 3-4K at the end of the year - that sure sent the financial planning out the window!
What you really want is a personal consultant - somebody experienced who knows his way around town - somebody who will take you by the hand when you first get off the plane and safely navigate you round all the potholes that litter the way to ownership abroad.
Now there is a buisness idea for you (if only I had the time
)
Suppose the villa verifiers (or whatever you want to call them) contact the manager and let them know that they have been hired to surveil a given property. This would give them both carte blanche to really start abusing the property - aside from receiving the fee from the houseowner, the surveilance could then also charge a fee on illegal rentals in return for ensuring that there will be no unwanted visitors during a given period.
In turn, the manager could rent out the property with a highly reduced risk of getting caught.
Management is all about trust - after all, you are handing over the keys to your property along with quite a bit of cash to keep everything up to speed.
What you really need, is a no-bullshit evaluation of the management companies at your disposal. On the other hand, the problems don´t start with the manager, do they? They already start with the purchase - how many people get duped when buying a house or a plot?
Example: Poeple get promised by an estate agent, that they would be able to make a good 10K p.a. profit on a given property by renting it out, later on they realize, that with reasonable occupancy they are only taking home 3-4K at the end of the year - that sure sent the financial planning out the window!
What you really want is a personal consultant - somebody experienced who knows his way around town - somebody who will take you by the hand when you first get off the plane and safely navigate you round all the potholes that litter the way to ownership abroad.
Now there is a buisness idea for you (if only I had the time
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shanagarry
- CVO Legend
- Posts: 2048
- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 7:26 pm
- Location: Craigweil-on-Sea
Gambrinus,
Thank you for your prompt response. That is why I made the point regarding no relationship between Villa Management and the Spot-Checker and more importantly the reason I believe it will be difficult to get somebody without a vested interest.
I can't comment on the background to people being duped when buying property/plots - that is for their own due diligence. If they are naive enough to fall for an Estate Agent's 'bull-shit' - that is unfortunate!
I am fortunate that I have a first rate, reliable and honest villa manager whose background I comprehensively checked when I was buying my property. She was introduced to me by the Estate Agent I bought the house through - and I am very pleased to put my property and all its contents in her capable hands. Our maid is equally trustworthy and reliable and has been looking after the property for 14 years (4 with us).
My spot checks are always embarassing as I get a telling off for not phoning for her to collect us from Faro.
It's what happens after that is the part you can control - so we are back to where we started. I don't have a general answer - I only know that our way works for us.
Thank you for your prompt response. That is why I made the point regarding no relationship between Villa Management and the Spot-Checker and more importantly the reason I believe it will be difficult to get somebody without a vested interest.
I can't comment on the background to people being duped when buying property/plots - that is for their own due diligence. If they are naive enough to fall for an Estate Agent's 'bull-shit' - that is unfortunate!
I am fortunate that I have a first rate, reliable and honest villa manager whose background I comprehensively checked when I was buying my property. She was introduced to me by the Estate Agent I bought the house through - and I am very pleased to put my property and all its contents in her capable hands. Our maid is equally trustworthy and reliable and has been looking after the property for 14 years (4 with us).
My spot checks are always embarassing as I get a telling off for not phoning for her to collect us from Faro.
It's what happens after that is the part you can control - so we are back to where we started. I don't have a general answer - I only know that our way works for us.
shanagarry,
I am really glad that you have had such a positive experience when you bought your house - a small part of that positive experience could probably be put down to better times when you bought your property.
I do know first-hand, that today it has turned more into dog-eat-dog - with dropping tourist numbers and innumerous properties on the sales and rental markets, a lot of people are faced with survival more than anything else.
You are right in saying, that there is no sure-fire solution applicable - your advice to preform a comprehensive screening will probably go a long way - a little reminder that you should never make decisions of such magnitude (buy a plot or house abroad) in a day.
I am really glad that you have had such a positive experience when you bought your house - a small part of that positive experience could probably be put down to better times when you bought your property.
I do know first-hand, that today it has turned more into dog-eat-dog - with dropping tourist numbers and innumerous properties on the sales and rental markets, a lot of people are faced with survival more than anything else.
You are right in saying, that there is no sure-fire solution applicable - your advice to preform a comprehensive screening will probably go a long way - a little reminder that you should never make decisions of such magnitude (buy a plot or house abroad) in a day.
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shanagarry
- CVO Legend
- Posts: 2048
- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 7:26 pm
- Location: Craigweil-on-Sea
Good Fortune
Gambrinus,
Thank you. I did buy when the conditions were more favourable than they are now. In fact I bought 2 (Offshore) properties - one I have just sold having had to endure a 12 month wait for a buyer then followed by a 6 month sale process. However, I have come through it unscathed - if not a little agitated.
This may sound a little sanctimonius - but I did my homework before I started 8 years ago. To date I have kept my head above water but I know it is very difficult on The Algarve property scene at the moment - an opportunist's market you might think?
No so - people are sitting tight at values that are not realistic (even though they may still make a profit) waiting for the tide to turn. If all the 'experts' are to be believed that is likely to be 2 years away - at best. I genuinely feel sorry for those who are caught in the negative equity trap as they have no choice but to ride it out.
Here's hoping to a good 2005 Summer and the return of the genuine tourists.
Thank you. I did buy when the conditions were more favourable than they are now. In fact I bought 2 (Offshore) properties - one I have just sold having had to endure a 12 month wait for a buyer then followed by a 6 month sale process. However, I have come through it unscathed - if not a little agitated.
This may sound a little sanctimonius - but I did my homework before I started 8 years ago. To date I have kept my head above water but I know it is very difficult on The Algarve property scene at the moment - an opportunist's market you might think?
No so - people are sitting tight at values that are not realistic (even though they may still make a profit) waiting for the tide to turn. If all the 'experts' are to be believed that is likely to be 2 years away - at best. I genuinely feel sorry for those who are caught in the negative equity trap as they have no choice but to ride it out.
Here's hoping to a good 2005 Summer and the return of the genuine tourists.
Size doesn't matter ! Prior to living here in CV, we owned an apartment at the P*****A golf resort just outdside CV, that we did not rent out. We heard a few rumours about apartments and villas being rented without the owners knowledge, bit didn't really believe it happened. The resort was managed at the time by CV Clube.
The CV Clube made a point about owners informing them of when they would be using the property, (they said so they could make sure it was clean). We used to come out at short notice, and didn't bother inform them. On one aoccasion it was clear that the apartment had been let, as there were German branded shampoos and shower gel left in the bathrooms. We approached the management company who just said it had not and we must be confused. We then heard of a couple turning up to their villa and finding someone renting it.
P*****A of course said it had nothing to do with them, and then tey terminated CV Clube, and manage the properties throgu their own company now.
This summer, we were visitng friends there, and noticed lights on at a another friends T3 apartment who was not in CV at the time. We knocked on the door, and the people staying were renting the property through P*****A. We phoned our friend, and she was of course most upset and angry. P*****A just brushed it off as an adminastrative error. Interestingly, in 2003, she left the apartment with P*****A to rent for the whole year except for maybe three weeks when she was going to be using it. They claimed that it was only rented for one week.........and they take 40% for the privalege.
We were lucky and sold our apartment back in summer 2002. Our friend is less fortunate and relying on the crooks to sell hers (and take 10%)
The CV Clube made a point about owners informing them of when they would be using the property, (they said so they could make sure it was clean). We used to come out at short notice, and didn't bother inform them. On one aoccasion it was clear that the apartment had been let, as there were German branded shampoos and shower gel left in the bathrooms. We approached the management company who just said it had not and we must be confused. We then heard of a couple turning up to their villa and finding someone renting it.
P*****A of course said it had nothing to do with them, and then tey terminated CV Clube, and manage the properties throgu their own company now.
This summer, we were visitng friends there, and noticed lights on at a another friends T3 apartment who was not in CV at the time. We knocked on the door, and the people staying were renting the property through P*****A. We phoned our friend, and she was of course most upset and angry. P*****A just brushed it off as an adminastrative error. Interestingly, in 2003, she left the apartment with P*****A to rent for the whole year except for maybe three weeks when she was going to be using it. They claimed that it was only rented for one week.........and they take 40% for the privalege.
We were lucky and sold our apartment back in summer 2002. Our friend is less fortunate and relying on the crooks to sell hers (and take 10%)
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shanagarry
- CVO Legend
- Posts: 2048
- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 7:26 pm
- Location: Craigweil-on-Sea
Do it yourself
I have heard similar stories on numerous occasions and regret to say that people bring the problem on themselves. I don't condone the practice but if you want the job done properly - do it yourself.
In the 7 years we have owned our properties in Cvo we have advertised, administered and organised all aspects of the rental process ourselves. The management of the logistics - cleaning, gardening, pool maintenance, payment for utilities, rates etc is handled for us by a very competent lady in Cvo. She is aware that I can turn up unnanounced at any time - and I do - and in the time there has never been anything untoward.
We operate on the basis that an asset of that value being put solely in the hands of a total stranger is a no-brainer.
In the 7 years we have owned our properties in Cvo we have advertised, administered and organised all aspects of the rental process ourselves. The management of the logistics - cleaning, gardening, pool maintenance, payment for utilities, rates etc is handled for us by a very competent lady in Cvo. She is aware that I can turn up unnanounced at any time - and I do - and in the time there has never been anything untoward.
We operate on the basis that an asset of that value being put solely in the hands of a total stranger is a no-brainer.
We visited our complex for many years as holidaymakers before deciding
to buy, so we got to see first hand the efficiency of the management
We try and do most of the marketing ourselves, but get quite a few enquiries through from our managment (obviously we have to pay a commission)
We were put in touch with the seller by the management and were recommended a solicitor by them also, the whole process was frighteningly easy, made better by the fact we had known the management for a few years - I realise not everyone is so lucky, but it can happen.
Tricky
to buy, so we got to see first hand the efficiency of the management
We try and do most of the marketing ourselves, but get quite a few enquiries through from our managment (obviously we have to pay a commission)
We were put in touch with the seller by the management and were recommended a solicitor by them also, the whole process was frighteningly easy, made better by the fact we had known the management for a few years - I realise not everyone is so lucky, but it can happen.
Tricky
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Mike Dickinson
- CVO Regular
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:36 pm
- Location: Fife
Villa Manager
I certainly agree with shanagarry that trust and integrity are crucial in the role of villa management. It is strange to think that you would hire someone in addition to a “Villa Manager” just to check on someone else you had hired 
Does the experience of Bob T in the P*****A Golf Resort suggest that there is there a conflict of interest when the Villa Management is being conducted by a large company whose main business is Villa rental?
Does the experience of Bob T in the P*****A Golf Resort suggest that there is there a conflict of interest when the Villa Management is being conducted by a large company whose main business is Villa rental?
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Guest
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shanagarry
- CVO Legend
- Posts: 2048
- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 7:26 pm
- Location: Craigweil-on-Sea
Villa Management
Mike
I understand that the Golf Resort's core business is selling villas and charging astronomical management/utility fees for the 'privelige' - the villa rental business is an add-on that appears to be given little attention, hence the lack of management care.
This is a similar position to CC in the not too distant past. I have friends whose property was placed in the 'not so careful hands' of this organisation with guarantees of a fixed income. It turned out that the guarantees were worthless (as the fees consumed a large amount of their guaranteed income) leaving our friends considerably out of pocket.
In response to the comment by 'Guest' - Please explain to me the action you propose when your PC detects an 'intruder' and/or your mobile phone rings and tells you there is somebody in your property?
I stick with my earlier suggestion - Do it yourself with the support of a good honest and proven reliable person. I know many will say they find it difficult to do this - what's the alternative?
I understand that the Golf Resort's core business is selling villas and charging astronomical management/utility fees for the 'privelige' - the villa rental business is an add-on that appears to be given little attention, hence the lack of management care.
This is a similar position to CC in the not too distant past. I have friends whose property was placed in the 'not so careful hands' of this organisation with guarantees of a fixed income. It turned out that the guarantees were worthless (as the fees consumed a large amount of their guaranteed income) leaving our friends considerably out of pocket.
In response to the comment by 'Guest' - Please explain to me the action you propose when your PC detects an 'intruder' and/or your mobile phone rings and tells you there is somebody in your property?
I stick with my earlier suggestion - Do it yourself with the support of a good honest and proven reliable person. I know many will say they find it difficult to do this - what's the alternative?