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bloodsports
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Guest
Is there anybody out there who rides to hounds and would like to throw in their tuppenceworth cos at the moment the only person who seems to have any personal knowledge is eco spider and hes a bit one sided which is fair enough..myself and digger seem to be just brushing the edges(no pun intended)and playing devils advocate..what about lesely jean..your into horses do you do any hunting atall..or any of yor mates..a few of us here seem to be more bothered by the type of people involved rather then the "sport" itself..i cant help feeling that theres a whole side to this that just isn,t getting an airing and it seems such a shame,
gerry
ps loreta ,mind your self with your new friends ..even though they can become quite tame they don,t ever really become pets so maybe just be a bit carefull as regards kids and that, their bite can do some damage and rabies is still a real danger
gerry
ps loreta ,mind your self with your new friends ..even though they can become quite tame they don,t ever really become pets so maybe just be a bit carefull as regards kids and that, their bite can do some damage and rabies is still a real danger
i see where you are coming from gerry but i think you`ll find that the majority of people just don`t condone unnecessary cruelty on animals anymore.Anonymous wrote:Is there anybody out there who rides to hounds and would like to throw in their tuppenceworth cos at the moment the only person who seems to have any personal knowledge is eco spider and hes a bit one sided which is fair enough..myself and digger seem to be just brushing the edges(no pun intended)and playing devils advocate..what about lesely jean..your into horses do you do any hunting atall..or any of yor mates..a few of us here seem to be more bothered by the type of people involved rather then the "sport" itself..i cant help feeling that theres a whole side to this that just isn,t getting an airing and it seems such a shame,
gerry
ps loreta ,mind your self with your new friends ..even though they can become quite tame they don,t ever really become pets so maybe just be a bit carefull as regards kids and that, their bite can do some damage and rabies is still a real danger
Fox hunting
Well, I own a horse and hunted once many years ago. The only reason hunting exists is because farmers want the hunt to find foxes on their land and kill them. This is purely for financial reasons. I find this argument quite distasteful as it seems most people seem to think that people who hunt or ride horses are 'upper class tw*ts' and that is just not true. People from all walks of life hunt and although I personally wouldn't hunt, I would not ban it. The government had a report done by Lord Burns which found that hunting is not the cruellest means of killing foxes but that doesn't mean anything to this government. So what do all you 'animal lovers' think is going to happen? Farmers are going to set traps (which wont just catch foxes), they'll put down poison (which wont just kill foxes) or they'll get people in to shoot them. Now these wont be marksmen because they would charge, so it's just going to be your average Tom, Dick or Harry who wants a bit of a laugh.
Everything I've read on this board and others points to people just wanting to see the 'upper classes' get theirs and it really shouldn't be about that at all. If people really cared about animals, they would continue with hunting but with it licensed which is what the Lords wanted to happen, but with MPs like Tony Banks, et al. that's not going to happen.
And another point, the fox is very rarely 'torn apart' while still alive. The first hound gets the fox on the back of the neck and bites through the backbone. Usually the huntspeople take the fox away from the pack and only later is it possibly given back to the hounds for their reward. And I agree with whoever said earlier, most people following hounds don't even see the fox and hardly ever see one killed. I never did even though the hunt did kill when I was there.
I think people should find out a bit more about it.
There - that's my twopennorth.
Everything I've read on this board and others points to people just wanting to see the 'upper classes' get theirs and it really shouldn't be about that at all. If people really cared about animals, they would continue with hunting but with it licensed which is what the Lords wanted to happen, but with MPs like Tony Banks, et al. that's not going to happen.
And another point, the fox is very rarely 'torn apart' while still alive. The first hound gets the fox on the back of the neck and bites through the backbone. Usually the huntspeople take the fox away from the pack and only later is it possibly given back to the hounds for their reward. And I agree with whoever said earlier, most people following hounds don't even see the fox and hardly ever see one killed. I never did even though the hunt did kill when I was there.
I think people should find out a bit more about it.
There - that's my twopennorth.
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petermeachem
- CVO Senior
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Ellie
- CVO Oracle
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As Bleeker says..a greater majority of folk do not condone cruelty to animals! Just cast my vote...no guessing where it went!
as for Guest (Interesting debate man)..re: the hen house..Ive no doubt its true and must be terrible to lose stock that way..and I do believe the farmer has a right to protect his animals..but
2 wrongs dont make a right....and Ill always see the hunt as very cruel!
and from Lorettas findings theyre actually breeding foxes to chase and be torn to pieces!
what d'you have to say about that ?
Living where I do..I have been privileged to see lot of wild life. Earlier this year I watched a fox in a field containing small flock of sheep (a few lambs as well). The fox never went anywhere near them..instead I watched as stealthily crept thru the fairly long grass and finally caught his meal for the day..making off with a large rabbit(we have a very large rabbit& hare population here..Id rather see the fox take a hare for his dinner than see cruel men(& women) part-take in the vile 'sport'(
) of hare-coursing)
Foxes are victimised...but actually its more often 'crows' that go after young lambs....going for their eyes
I dont know how to end this post except to say..maybe the 'wolf'(another maligned creature) should be introduced..then the fox becomes part of the food chain?
But would a wolf be just a tad too challenging for the 'pink jackets' d'you think
as for Guest (Interesting debate man)..re: the hen house..Ive no doubt its true and must be terrible to lose stock that way..and I do believe the farmer has a right to protect his animals..but
2 wrongs dont make a right....and Ill always see the hunt as very cruel!
and from Lorettas findings theyre actually breeding foxes to chase and be torn to pieces!
what d'you have to say about that ?Living where I do..I have been privileged to see lot of wild life. Earlier this year I watched a fox in a field containing small flock of sheep (a few lambs as well). The fox never went anywhere near them..instead I watched as stealthily crept thru the fairly long grass and finally caught his meal for the day..making off with a large rabbit(we have a very large rabbit& hare population here..Id rather see the fox take a hare for his dinner than see cruel men(& women) part-take in the vile 'sport'(
) of hare-coursing)Foxes are victimised...but actually its more often 'crows' that go after young lambs....going for their eyes
I dont know how to end this post except to say..maybe the 'wolf'(another maligned creature) should be introduced..then the fox becomes part of the food chain?
But would a wolf be just a tad too challenging for the 'pink jackets' d'you think
Guess which way my vote went. 
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Foxylady
Ellie wrote:Earlier this year I watched a fox in a field containing small flock of sheep (a few lambs as well). The fox never went anywhere near them..instead I watched as stealthily crept thru the fairly long grass and finally caught his meal for the day..making off with a large rabbit
……shock horror!!!!!!……I like rabbits, and I suggest Lorretta gets one or two for the garden, far more suitable than those foxes who like to check out the contents of every dustbin in the neighbourhood.So what’s all the fuss about? Foxes kill rabbits …..dogs kill foxes….it’s call nature…
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Foxylady
I have no particular views on hunting either way - I do not see it as any less cruel than keeping birds in cages, fishing, shooting, battery farming or many other things that happen in our society.
What I find immensely distasteful is the way the ban has been shovelled through Parliament - Peter rightly points out that the majority of the population want hunting banned, but in fact the whole point of a democracy is to defend the rights of the minority, not to implement the desires of the majority - That way leads to extremist politics as peddled by the likes of the National Front.
I will admit that I was a large Blair fan, but this issue has shown what is really happening in Parliament - the radical left are still at large, with their view that anyone succesful needs to be brought down a peg or two - and this scares the hell out of me - I am sure given their way taxes would increase substantially as a punishement for success, not as an income raising method.
Further, the blackmailing of the House of Lords is a disgrace - to give them the option of (a) backing the ban, in which case it will come in a years time, or (b) refusing the ban, in which case Tony will implement the Parliament act to make it immediate, seems to take away the whole point of the second chamber. (Besides which, using the Parliament Act to ban foxhunting is a bit like using a nuclear sub to resolve a dispute on a boating lake!)
Hunting is being singled out because of its perceived popularity amongst the 'toffs' (an offensive word full of bigotted overtones anyway) - I believe keeping budgies in cages is equally cruel - possibly more so because at least the fox had some degree of life - but I think it highly unlikely that this, or any other animal cruelty such as fishing which is in the main enjoyed by the working classes, will be banned.
Tony Blair has commissioned three reports, none of which support the case for an outright ban, and he himself prefers a middle way of regulation - it is intensely worrying for us all when the Prime Minister has to throw his own principles out of the window to appease the far left of the party and I for one think he is a much lesser man for it.
In essence, what is the point of a two stage Parliament and independent reports if they are to be totally ignored when it suits the Government - if it is willing to do this on a minor issue I have a real fear about the larger picture.
What I find immensely distasteful is the way the ban has been shovelled through Parliament - Peter rightly points out that the majority of the population want hunting banned, but in fact the whole point of a democracy is to defend the rights of the minority, not to implement the desires of the majority - That way leads to extremist politics as peddled by the likes of the National Front.
I will admit that I was a large Blair fan, but this issue has shown what is really happening in Parliament - the radical left are still at large, with their view that anyone succesful needs to be brought down a peg or two - and this scares the hell out of me - I am sure given their way taxes would increase substantially as a punishement for success, not as an income raising method.
Further, the blackmailing of the House of Lords is a disgrace - to give them the option of (a) backing the ban, in which case it will come in a years time, or (b) refusing the ban, in which case Tony will implement the Parliament act to make it immediate, seems to take away the whole point of the second chamber. (Besides which, using the Parliament Act to ban foxhunting is a bit like using a nuclear sub to resolve a dispute on a boating lake!)
Hunting is being singled out because of its perceived popularity amongst the 'toffs' (an offensive word full of bigotted overtones anyway) - I believe keeping budgies in cages is equally cruel - possibly more so because at least the fox had some degree of life - but I think it highly unlikely that this, or any other animal cruelty such as fishing which is in the main enjoyed by the working classes, will be banned.
Tony Blair has commissioned three reports, none of which support the case for an outright ban, and he himself prefers a middle way of regulation - it is intensely worrying for us all when the Prime Minister has to throw his own principles out of the window to appease the far left of the party and I for one think he is a much lesser man for it.
In essence, what is the point of a two stage Parliament and independent reports if they are to be totally ignored when it suits the Government - if it is willing to do this on a minor issue I have a real fear about the larger picture.
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Thunderbolt
- CVO Master
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It's a difficult subject.
I was against hunting because of the cruelty. Can't see why you can't cull the foxes if they become a nuisance without having to indulge in scaring the poor animal half to death and then killing him for pleasure.
I can see the point in hunting for food, etc...
But now that I've read other posts, I realise it's not all that clear cut.
I would still rather it didn't happen though!
Lots to think about
I was against hunting because of the cruelty. Can't see why you can't cull the foxes if they become a nuisance without having to indulge in scaring the poor animal half to death and then killing him for pleasure.
I can see the point in hunting for food, etc...
But now that I've read other posts, I realise it's not all that clear cut.
I would still rather it didn't happen though!
Lots to think about
excellent post Graham...and so true…..
Foxylady…..my wife does a pretty mean rabbit stew with tomatoes…yummy….but of course foxes are carnivores and it is not a good idea to eat them
Thunderbolt….. “scaring the poor animal half to death”… ….it’s a jungle out there.....A dignified way to go....better than the trap or poison.
Perhaps you should vote "don't care"
Foxylady…..my wife does a pretty mean rabbit stew with tomatoes…yummy….but of course foxes are carnivores and it is not a good idea to eat them
Thunderbolt….. “scaring the poor animal half to death”…
….it’s a jungle out there.....A dignified way to go....better than the trap or poison.Perhaps you should vote "don't care"
Graham have you not yet realised. TONY. B. LIAR does not want a second house nor a first one for that matter. No Dictator ever does.
I totally agree with you on the caged bird argument. How many of these so called animal lovers keep caged pets, fish tanks. or leave there dogs/cats shut indoors all day. I feel they are far more cruel than us country folk who just want is a nice bit of roast fox every so often:twisted:
I totally agree with you on the caged bird argument. How many of these so called animal lovers keep caged pets, fish tanks. or leave there dogs/cats shut indoors all day. I feel they are far more cruel than us country folk who just want is a nice bit of roast fox every so often:twisted: