EDP estimated readings

[sunman]

the sages and Politicians tell us that the way to get the economy going is for us all to get out there & spend spend spend;

what chance has little Portugal got of any recovery when their meagre incomes are clobbered with these sort of % rises in utilities & the ever soaring cost of petrol? very little I suspect

[EMM]

Regarding Sunmans comment on fuel prices , we filled up today at Pao a sucar ( Bread and sugar ) and the equivalent sterling prices was £1.36 . Galp with 10c discount from conmtinente £1.38.
In our local Sainsburys £1.34.9 and independent garages £1.39.9

In the summer when the exchange rate was E1,25 fuel was cheaper than the UK.

[sunman]

Regarding Sunmans comment on fuel prices , we filled up today at Pao a sucar ( Bread and sugar ) and the equivalent sterling prices was £1.36 . Galp with 10c discount from conmtinente £1.38.
In our local Sainsburys £1.34.9 and independent garages £1.39.9

In the summer when the exchange rate was E1,25 fuel was cheaper than the UK.

in the UK the average salary is £25,500, in Portugal it's more like €10,000, it's all about disposable income; people here (UK) are moaning about gas bills, we're sweltering in the heat of our central heating & paying 30% less than we did in VDM for our gas

[sunman]

Regarding Sunmans comment on fuel prices , we filled up today at Pao a sucar ( Bread and sugar ) and the equivalent sterling prices was £1.36 . Galp with 10c discount from conmtinente £1.38.
In our local Sainsburys £1.34.9 and independent garages £1.39.9

In the summer when the exchange rate was E1,25 fuel was cheaper than the UK.

in the UK the average salary is £25,500, in Portugal it's more like €10,000, it's all about disposable income; people here (UK) are moaning about gas bills, we're sweltering in the heat of our central heating & paying 30% less than we did in VDM for our gas

oh, and welcome back EMM

[Rampage]

Rampage I'm a little worried.............do you think that we're unusual keeping a record of annual electricity bills ?

Incidentally I track gas, telephone & water too & do monthly trend analysis ............sad old git or what?

Widge - being an engineer I am naturally a compulsive Excel user. Consequently I have spreadsheets (and charts showing trends) so I track all these commodities plus manpower (maid, pool man, gardener) and rental income. Just can't help it!!

[pato]

Rampage I'm a little worried.............do you think that we're unusual keeping a record of annual electricity bills ?

Incidentally I track gas, telephone & water too & do monthly trend analysis ............sad old git or what?

Widge - being an engineer I am naturally a compulsive Excel user. Consequently I have spreadsheets (and charts showing trends) so I track all these commodities plus manpower (maid, pool man, gardener) and rental income. Just can't help it!!

WoW! I'm impressed really, I don't know what I'm doing or in fact what I'm paying very negligent I know, I'd love to know if my place is running economically, just for peace of mind,

[maccasa]

It isnt exactly rocket science to keep the docs from The Camara and the emails from edp, then tot up each year - actually I'm staggered by the figures you quote - admittedly we are only there about 20 weeks each year and various friends and relatives another 8, but our water bill last year was a total of €420 and our electric was €1200. Our heating is by the a/c and a small electric wall fan in the lounge with a log burner. We keep the electric on all times for the pool pump and have 2 fridges permanently running. The villa is 5 bed with a/c in 4 rooms, roof solar panels for the hot water and roof strip panels for the pool heater. Add €720 pa for the pool man and thats it. What are you doing - using searchlights?

[widge]

You've got to have the most economical 5 bedroom villa on the Algarve. €2300 per year for water, heat, light,aircon, pool heating & maintenance !
Looking back on previous posts on the topic of villa running costs I've never seen anything as low as Villa Maccasa !

[Sheila]

......We keep the electric on all times for the pool pump and have 2 fridges permanently running. The villa is 5 bed with a/c in 4 rooms, roof solar panels for the hot water and roof strip panels for the pool heater. Add €720 pa for the pool man and thats it. What are you doing - using searchlights?

Is that solar strip panels for the pool heating? What sort of pool temperature do you get? Do you have any other back up heating?

[maccasa]

The solar panels are always on as the the pool recircualtion is pumped through it. The "start" season for us is april - it gets up to 27 by then, in may we start hitting 30 and then its a constant 32+ (and can easily be 35 in aug) until mid oct - usually its too cold by the end of the month - down to 24ish.

You MUST have a pool cover though as you lose too much heat at night in april/may and end sept/oct.

You need a minimum solar mat area of 50% of your pool - Ive got about 65%.

The european recommendations for pool temps are - competitive 27C, adult leisure 28/29 and childrens pools 30.

[maccasa]

Widge - youve got a pool heater with heat pump - I would check what your electric consumption is - Some of them are as low as 1kw in gives 3.5 kw out. Normal range is 5-6 out and I have "heard" of 8. Have u got a pool cover? Low energy light bulbs?

[Sheila]

The solar panels are always on as the the pool recircualtion is pumped through it. The "start" season for us is april - it gets up to 27 by then, in may we start hitting 30 and then its a constant 32+ (and can easily be 35 in aug) until mid oct - usually its too cold by the end of the month - down to 24ish.

You MUST have a pool cover though as you lose too much heat at night in april/may and end sept/oct.

You need a minimum solar mat area of 50% of your pool - Ive got about 65%.

The european recommendations for pool temps are - competitive 27C, adult leisure 28/29 and childrens pools 30.

I'm a very chilly mortal and i like my pool at least 30C. As we will be mainly using it in the winter it seems solar won't be up to the job unless maybe we increase the area to 100%? What do you recommend? We used to hire a villa with a heat pump and in February it was very warm. Perhaps this is the answer.

[maccasa]

A heat pump will certainly do the job for the winter, but they can be expensive, both in terms of price and running costs. The man across from me has one, although its quite a small pool and he reckons it takes 2 days to get to temperature at first, but then only "ticks over" as the several tons of water are already warm. when I checked these units, I found very varying prices - The place in Lagoa - solambiente? wanted €6500 and the running cost/efficiency was 1kw in for 4kw out. My pool is total vol ~85 m3 - which is 85 tons of water. Its a fairly simple calculation of mass x heat rise x specific heat - so 85 tons from 15C to 30 in the winter is 85,000 (kgs) x 15 (temp rise) x 1 (sp ht H20) = 1275000 kcals. This is equiv to 1480 kw hrs so at a 4:1 ratio you would need to put 370 kwh into the heat pump to get the pool to 30C. EDP charge approx €.1385/kwh so its about €50 each time. No real idea what the heat loss is, but you can assume at least 10% even with a cover, so its going to be ~€5/day to keep it warm. I have heard from several sources that a charge of €100/wk is normal for letting if they want the pool heated, so this seems about right.

You can get the heat pumps much cheaper - in fact if you go the route of buying from US ($2000) and importing to uk, add vat + duty of 1.5%, then to portugal, I reckon I could get one for about half what solambiente wanted.

[maccasa]

Sorry didnt answer about the area of mats, the larger the area the better, but realistically you will only get an 8-10C rise in temp - so if its 15C the pool would ony get to low/mid 20's at best. A Heat pump is the only answer for Nov-March.
AND - you still have to get out and dry off in the cold!!

[Bruce Wallis]

Well you seem to have all ends covered widge but your bills seem enormous - are you sure a neighbour hasn't connected up to your supply

You joke.....but our agent told us a story of one of her clients getting massive utility bills during the winter when their house was empty.

The readings were checked....and re-checked, and were still going up.

Eventually after some investigation, it was discovered that the next door neighbours, had tee-ed into the electricity and water feeds.

The GNR were then called in!

.............................and ....before some smart-arse thinks of the blindingly obvious......No, they weren't my neighbours!!