The tragic price of tolls revenue.

[Bruce Wallis]

It is a fairly well documented fact that traffic density has increased by about 45% ( Portuguese department of Transport figures, released last week), on the N125, since December, giving rise again to that roads old title of "The road of death"

I witnessed the possible sad truth of that today.

We saw the aftermath of a 2 vehicle crash and fire, just by Quartier (I'm sure my spelling will be corrected), and then just before Pata, witnessed the GNR and Bomberios, laying the bodies of 2 young men by the roadside, and covering them with a poly sheet after cutting them from a wrecked car.

Would those accidents have happened anyway? Tolls or no tolls? I cant possibly know......but the question I find myself posing is "How much in tolls revenue, is worth the loss of even one human life?"

[bruce]

So sorry you had to witness that Bruce, whatever the cause or reason it is something you never forget.

[EMM]

I have calculated that I have driven close to 1,5 million miles in my adult life and have seen far too many incidents and sights I would rather forget.
In the Algarve what we have seen in the past few months is not that there are more idiots about but that the increase in traffic on the 125 means that there is not enough room on the road on the occaisions they get it wrong. A boy racer or white van driver is the same in Portugal as in the UK the difference is that in the Algarve there is a different mix of drivers with a percentage which increases in the summer of those unaware of and lacking in experience of local driving habits.

If the A22 carried as much traffic as a UK motorway some would think it a road too dangerous to drive on.

[James Faro]

So sorry you had to witness that Bruce, whatever the cause or reason it is something you never forget.

Sue, your old man(now bus driver) was a traffic cop. Did he witness such things?

[bruce]

JF - Many times and it never got any easier breaking the tragic news to the deceased's family.
He no longer does his part-time job driving the mobile library, last year at 62 he decided to retire and he is now
happy being a 'kept' man.

[jamielyon4]

It is a fairly well documented fact that traffic density has increased by about 45% ( Portuguese department of Transport figures, released last week), on the N125, since December, giving rise again to that roads old title of "The road of death"

I witnessed the possible sad truth of that today.

We saw the aftermath of a 2 vehicle crash and fire, just by Quartier (I'm sure my spelling will be corrected), and then just before Pata, witnessed the GNR and Bomberios, laying the bodies of 2 young men by the roadside, and covering them with a poly sheet after cutting them from a wrecked car.

Would those accidents have happened anyway? Tolls or no tolls? I cant possibly know......but the question I find myself posing is "How much in tolls revenue, is worth the loss of even one human life?"

Its a point well made...saying that the way the Portuguese overtake, stay on the wrong side as long as they can then cut in and glue themselves to your bumper...there are bound to be serious incidents. The cops should be more vigilant with bad driving if they want to stop it

[keela]

Ironically, the tolls have had an impact on the A22. Not just the drastic reduction in traffic on the A22 but the revenue which the petrol stations aren't now getting from the motorists. It has been reported that the petrol stations on the A22 are now running at a loss. How long will it be before they have to close? That will mean more people out of a job in an economic climate which is already perilous. I had read that the EU have told Portugal that the tolls are illegal. How long will it be before they are fined? Obviously the fine would be more than the revenue being received from the tolls - not like the revenue received from the importation costs ( a different matter altogether). Surely the Government must wake up soon and smell the coffee.

[EMM]

The tolls are NOT illegal, this was reported in a recent Portugal News and last weeks Algarve Resident carried a correction to their earlier report .
It has also been reported that road fatalities are lower in 2012 than the same period in 2011.
Yes they may impact on business but compared to the effects of the crisis and other changes in public finances and taxes the tolls have little effect other than I would think visitors from Spain.
Unless you are an avid reader of the forums how would anyone in the UK or the rest of Europe know about the tolls ??.

[keela]

So the Resident printed a correction. The A22 was built with EU money. Why should they charge and try and make money on something they didn't pay for. Anyway, a lot of people who have already been here on holiday have fallen foul of the tolls. They have tried to pay tolls incurred by them and been told that there was an outstanding amount for a previous renter of the car. They would have to pay all the charge or none at all. You seem to have missed one point - the petrol stations on the A22 are running at a loss due to the decrease in traffic and therefore people needing to fill up. That is going to have an impact surely? You are only a visitor, albeit you own property here. The people who have to use the A22 cannot afford out of net income what it costs. There are folk who due to where they live and work have to use the motorway or have an increase put on the time to get to work by using the 125 ( which is getting horrendous even now with increased traffic, goodness knows what it will be like in the summer).

[EMM]

20 plus weeks a year makes us more than vistors and we drive on the 125 almost every day and have seen the increase in traffic.
Portugal along with much of Europe is in the **** it has to raise revenue internally to meet the conditions of the bailout and things may have to get even tougher. Do you think that the 95% or Portuguese who do not use the A22 or live in areas in the North where motorways have been tolled for years should subsidise tourists or residents when they are faced with a falling living standards and income ?
As for paying for the previous renters car if you can prove your rental period and usage then you do not have to pay.
Who paid for the motorways is of no matter if the EU ( which it apparently has done ) says the tolls are legal.
The tourist industry is changing the Gale group of companies is changing some of its hotels to " all inclusive " to meet the idemands of the lower end of the market for this type of holiday.
These package tour visitors are not worried about tolls as they do not use the motorways but they will provide much needed jobs .

[Octopus]

Do you think that the 95% or Portuguese who do not use the A22 or live in areas in the North where motorways have been tolled for years should subsidise tourists or residents when they are faced with a falling living standards and income ?

Yes they should, as tourists/expats bring a significant amount of money into the Portuguese economy than they take out - countries should be bending over backwards to ensure that continues.

[EMM]

I doubt that those who were interviewed this morning on R4 who have seen a 25% cut in their wages and have to use food banks would agree with you.
Just keep driving like a ***** and you will solve Portugals financial problems all on your own.