Real meaning?

Miss Muffet · Post by **Miss Muffet** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 12:56 am

Apparently if we knew the real meaning of some nursery rhymes we would not be teaching them to our young children.
Jack & Jill went up the hill (now it seems-not just for a bucket of water)Goosey Goosey Gander(what does that really mean?)
Hickory Dickory Dock?
Rock a bye baby ?(hear that this has political connotations)
Georgey Porgey etc
wee willie winkie?

and as for Miss Muffet? I feally haven't a clue.Have you?

cowboy · Post by **cowboy** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 3:19 am

She had a thing about Spiders.

Ellie · Post by **Ellie** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 11:48 am

OOhh errr.....So have I Coop.but only the big hairy ones

What is a tuffet anyway? The thing shes sat on?
I only know the meaning of the
'Ring a Ring a Roses ' one
pocket full of posies
atishoo atishoo
we all fall down.........written at time of great plague I think?
Posies..bunches of flowers/herbs were supposed to 'ward it off' ??
Just thought..was Georgie Porgy one..about the Prince Regent who was grossly overweight (putting it mildly!)?...who became George 4th.

cowboy · Post by **cowboy** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 3:57 pm

What is a tuffet anyway? The thing shes sat on

?

A mushroom?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 4:16 pm

Its a grassy mound, though now it generally refers to a footstool

Ellie · Post by **Ellie** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 4:37 pm

Well thank-you Guest..we do live and learn on here

I think..youre the same 'Guest'..who has been on several topics recently ..and who seems quite a learned/informative person..I wonder 'who' you are???

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 6:54 pm

My name is Mr. Bean!

digger · Post by **digger** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 7:04 pm

……..and what about Lewis Carroll: hallucinogenic drugs inspired him to write Alice in Wonderland

………apparently

bifa's 2nd darling · Post by **bifa's 2nd darling** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 9:40 pm

if you read peter and Iona Opie's The Lore and Langauge of schoolchildren or The Oxford Book of Nursery rhymes all is explained

Ellie · Post by **Ellie** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 10:18 pm

So Guest 'Mr Bean'......what do we call you....runner/jumping or what? you certainly sound..full of beans (sorry..its the best I can do tonight

)
Yeah Digger...weird bloke Lewis Carrol..and d'you know thats a book I never liked as a child..it sort of frightened me....and that other childs book/film..'The Wizard of Oz' also had the same effect on me..never liked it..I can't even watch it now as an adult...
2nd darling..is it true then..that some of the rhymes are really unsuitable for young kids?

big kid · Post by **big kid** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 11:11 am

Bean? The guy whos beamed down?
Who remembers the little tv character Mr Ben on kids programme? I think they called him senhor Bean on Portugals tv

bifa's 2nd darling · Post by **bifa's 2nd darling** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 2:20 pm

here comes the boring reply...!
Little Miss Muffet was the daughter of a 16th century spider enthusiast.
Mary mary quite contrary is about Mary Queen of scots
Jack and Jill relates to an ancient scandinavian myth about two children, Hjuki and Bil, drawing water from a well when they were kidnapped by the moon.

I think eeny meeny miny mo is the way druids chose their human sacrifices
And hickory dickory dok is an ancient shepherds way of counting.

can any ancient shepherds out there back me up on this one??!

Oh and wasn't lucy locket who lost her pocket a prostitute?

Ellie · Post by **Ellie** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 5:23 pm

I think its quite interesting 2nd Darling...
Didnt know about the 'Eeny meeny miny mo' one....victims of Druids eh?
all that going on at Stonehenge

..... I thought the rhyme was to do with slavery!
maybe Steen can enlighten us about the Scandinavian 'Jack & Jill'

Theres some quite ancient shephers round this way..I wonder if theyve moved on to calculators yet

Id ask..but they dont seem to understand my 'London speak' ..and they use Lincs words that I dont understand...like 'blathering' etc

petermeachem · Post by **petermeachem** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 8:55 pm

ckory dickory dock - beginning the nursery rhyme (... the mouse ran up the clock, etc.) - these strange words origins are from the Welsh translation of the numbers 'eight, nine, ten'.

Course it could easily be rubbish. From http://www.businessballs.com/clichesorigins.htm

To it's credit it does have the words for Knees up Mother Brown. I've got a wonderful 78 record with a terrribly plummy 50's lady explaining how to dance it.

Ellie · Post by **Ellie** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 10:05 pm

So ..is it ancient 'Welsh' shepherds we need to ask Peter?

Does that old 78 put you in party mood?