H2o

[pato]

Pato, thanks for editing that table.

What are those numbers 5, 10 20 ?
Are they euros per something ?

Its just conceivable that I am confused too, but I think there's an answer somewhere.

cm's

[e-richard]

Richie!! Why don you rissen!

since 15/05/08........................Before 15/05/08
1 Escalo 5 ........................................10
2 Escalo 10 ........................................20
3 Escalo 10.........................................20
4 Escalo 25 ........................................50
5 Escalo 187

They've halved the qualifying ammounts!! now for example after using 50cm' before '08 I would move to the top rate, now, I do that after consuming 25cm' The only difference is they now bill monthly rather than bi-monthly

Honest guv, I am rissening.

Taking your example above, lets say you are using exactly 4cm every month. Under the pre 15/5 system, your bill came every 2 months, and your usage amounted to 8cm (thats 4 X 2), so you were on scale 1.
In the new system, your bill comes every 1 month, you are using 4cm, so you are still on scale 1. i.e. no change, as I keep saying.

BUT, and Sanreen has hit the nail on the head, my argument above only holds water (sic) if you use the same amount every month of the year.

If, your home is not fully occupied, then under the old system, you could have used 8cm in 1 week, and nothing for the other 3 weeks of that month and nothing for the following month, and you would be billed at level 1. Now, you will go into level 2 And that, I think is what your manager was trying to identify. Its very likely to show in increase for inconsistent users, and not for regular (resident) users.

Phew !

[Gambrinus]

but, but, but, it was only changed to bi-monthly a year before that. Maybe they thought to cut costs (edit: and reduce their work load) by only sending the readers out every two months but realized that they were loosing out much more on water bills because the consumption was diluted over a longer period.... so they scrapped the idea.

That sound like something Lagoa Camera would do? I think it does.

[snowytheboy]

Just get into a new routine - wash or shower on the odd days of the month and flush the toilet on the even days - that way you should use less water (unless that routine would be increasing your frequency of course).

[pato]

but, but, but, it was only changed to bi-monthly a year before that. Maybe they thought to cut costs (edit: and reduce their work load) by only sending the readers out every two months but realized that they were loosing out much more on water bills because the consumption was diluted over a longer period.... so they scrapped the idea.

That sound like something Lagoa Camera would do? I think it does.

It is though an increase in running costs whatever anyone says. never mind when we're billed they've reduced each catagory by 50% and each progressive catogory is more expensive than the previous. In gas terms the more you use the cheaper it gets, completely the opposite to water

[pickwick]

All

If ever there was proof that owners need M8 (or someone else) to help them with their costs this topic is it!!

I have rarely laughed so much reading the angst you are experiencing over such a simple matter - c'mon you cannot be serious!! You cannot really be confused are you??

Pickwick
PS M8 told you they need led by the hand!!

[pato]

All

If ever there was proof that owners need M8 (or someone else) to help them with their costs this topic is it!!

I have rarely laughed so much reading the angst you are experiencing over such a simple matter - c'mon you cannot be serious!! You cannot really be confused are you??

Pickwick
PS M8 told you they need led by the hand!!

Well! smart ass are we being charged more or not

[pickwick]

Pato

The answer lies in your usage pattern and quantum of usage. Now you reach higher rates more quickly but then the clock is reset and you return to the lowest rate in half the time! The devil of the answer to your question is in the detail which is why I found all the comments so amusing. There is no definitve answer covering all the different usage pattern permutations.

The calculation will be different for every different pattern of usage! It is not that I am being a "smart ass" but imagine if M8 was looking after your costs he would know your pattern of usage and would spend the time needed to fully spreadsheet the old offering v the new offering and could give you a definitive answer! The reason he would do this is it would pay him to become an expert in each area of owners cost because he would be representing many owners and making an income only from the savings. The short answer is that it will probably cost you more as you will be paying 12 times so your bank charges will double and you will be cash negative by having to pay your next bill in 1 month rather than 2.

Say you usually visit once each 2 months and stay for say 3 weeks. If during your visit (and the visit does not straddle the charging period end and start) AND you go over the first rate band you will be charged for some of your water at the higher rate. Then off you go and your consumption stops or reduces considerably. If when this reduced usage (for the 5 weeks you are not in the Algarve) is added to your usage when you were in your property and the total is lower than the old 2 month limit at the lower rate you will now be paying more for the same quantity of water as under the old system all of your consumption would have been at the lowest rate.

There is little competition in the supply of water (unless you have a cisterna) but as an example of how you can reduce this cost I know one owner who lives in Sesmarias who has invested in a bore hole (at considerable capital cost) and he no longer buys water from the Camara. Someone like M8 could do the calculation and provide you with accurate information which could allow you to make an informed choice. He would not be a smart ass he would just have the knowledge!! You could collect rain water etc for the garden.......

Most of the other posts are correct in saying nothing much changes for all year round residents if they consume the same amount each month however this is the Algarve and I suspect the vast majority of us con sume far more water in the summer months!!

I think I recall that you run your own business and I am sure you do it very well but you cannot be an expert in every area of your own business's running costs. We have 250+ UK clients ranging from SME's to £100m+ turnover businesses and we save the vast majority of them 30 - 35% per annum on their recurring business expenses. They are not stupid and have done thier best but I can assure you they do not think of us a smart asses particularly the ones that have banked a net £1m by taking our advice!!!! Think on Pato.

Pickwick

[pato]

Pickwick! Don't take my smart ass comment too seriously, in fact don't take me too seriously......... well, I suppose you dont anyway

[pato]

Oh one thing, they're invoicing once a month now rather tha bi-monthly, now if bi-monthly means twice a month or every two months I'm not sure, So! if it,makes no difference why change the tarrif levels, why not just carry on, or, is it, as some posters have suggested they're targeting the owner who visits or let's for shorter periods of the year rather than full time residents

[steve]

Don't worry.No one is going to take you seriously after your last post. The dull thudding sound you hear is heads being knocked against brick walls.

[pickwick]

Steve

Over to you - do you want to take up the challenge and start with the definition of bi-monthly!!

My sides are soooooo sore!!!!!!!!

Pickwick

[e-richard]

Over to you - do you want to take up the challenge and start with the definition of bi-monthly!!

You might have to start even simpler and define what water is.

I'm now bored.

[pato]

Don't worry.No one is going to take you seriously after your last post. The dull thudding sound you hear is heads being knocked against brick walls.

Who woke you up?

[joeysoap]

as fairly newbie to CVO and the delights of various billing systems was poking around the forum for information on how water charges are compiled and came across this gem. have now stopped laughing long enough to get back to more serious business. never had the pleasure of 2 monthly billing (trying to keep it simple here) and still a casual visitor so can see how Lagoa Camera do benefit from the change. was actually charged for 7 units last year even though I knew we were only on 3 at the time so 5 x first rate and 2 x next rate. just billed standing charge for the next few months until I actually passed the 7 units and normal billing resumed. so Lagoa slightly overcharged but not to worry. anyone able to explain those two charges on the invoices which also correspond with the usage. I don't understand them or why they are seperate from the usage charge. tried one of those portugese to english translation sites and best I could come up with was 1) disposal of water & 2) disposal of solids