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88 golf courses possibilty!!!
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Guest
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petermeachem
- CVO Senior
- Posts: 253
- Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 10:32 am
Presumably this will set the pro-golf lobby off again.
1) I've just been googling about. Apparently a golf course uses round about 5000 times more water than a person, and that is just for the course, not the people using it.
2) They are a blight on the landscape in the Algarve just as they are in England.
3) http://www.socialfunds.com/news/release.cgi/1637.html Water is way to valuable to throw away on keeping grass green.
4) Interesting article on sustainable development http://www.nfi.at/english/Arbeitsbereic ... oc3-en.htm .
I would like my children to have a decent life not ruined by over-consumption of any sort.
5) Some quotes from www.saveourgroundwater.org/docs/blue_gold.pdf
Global consumption of water is doubling every 20 years, more than twice the rate of human population growth. According to the United Nations, more than one billion people on earth already lack access to fresh drinking water. If current trends persist, by 2025 the demand for fresh water is expected to rise to 56 percent more than the amount that is currently available.
Groundwater over-pumping and aquifer depletion are now serious problems in the world's most intensive agricultural areas. In the U.S., the High Plains Ogallala aquifer, stretching 1,300 kilometres from the Texas panhandle to South Dakota, is being depleted eight times faster than nature can replenish it, and the water table under California's San Joaquin Valley has dropped nearly ten metres in some spots within the last 50 years. Twenty-one percent of irrigation in the U.S. is achieved by pumping ground water at rates that exceed the water's ability to
recharge.
Th water table beneath Beijing has dropped 37 metres over the last four decades. In fact, so severe is the projected water crisis in Beijing, experts are now wondering whether the seat of power in China will have to be moved.
The story is perhaps most stark in China. The Worldwatch Institute warns that an unexpectedly abrupt decline in the supply of water for China's farmers could threaten world food security. China faces severe grain shortages in the near future because of water depletion due to the current shift of limited water resources from agriculture to industry and cities.
Using vast quantities of water to make large areas of grass artificially green so that relatively few people can walk around on it is morally wrong.
Why on earth can't people leave other people's countries alone, so that they are different and not make them into a slightly warmer version of Surrey. I really like the bit of Portugal we have bought a house in. I like it because it is Portuguese and quite different to here. There are no M & S and no Berni Inns and no English beer and no English football on Sky in restaurants and no bloody hooray-henries playing bloody golf.
1) I've just been googling about. Apparently a golf course uses round about 5000 times more water than a person, and that is just for the course, not the people using it.
2) They are a blight on the landscape in the Algarve just as they are in England.
3) http://www.socialfunds.com/news/release.cgi/1637.html Water is way to valuable to throw away on keeping grass green.
4) Interesting article on sustainable development http://www.nfi.at/english/Arbeitsbereic ... oc3-en.htm .
I would like my children to have a decent life not ruined by over-consumption of any sort.
5) Some quotes from www.saveourgroundwater.org/docs/blue_gold.pdf
Global consumption of water is doubling every 20 years, more than twice the rate of human population growth. According to the United Nations, more than one billion people on earth already lack access to fresh drinking water. If current trends persist, by 2025 the demand for fresh water is expected to rise to 56 percent more than the amount that is currently available.
Groundwater over-pumping and aquifer depletion are now serious problems in the world's most intensive agricultural areas. In the U.S., the High Plains Ogallala aquifer, stretching 1,300 kilometres from the Texas panhandle to South Dakota, is being depleted eight times faster than nature can replenish it, and the water table under California's San Joaquin Valley has dropped nearly ten metres in some spots within the last 50 years. Twenty-one percent of irrigation in the U.S. is achieved by pumping ground water at rates that exceed the water's ability to
recharge.
Th water table beneath Beijing has dropped 37 metres over the last four decades. In fact, so severe is the projected water crisis in Beijing, experts are now wondering whether the seat of power in China will have to be moved.
The story is perhaps most stark in China. The Worldwatch Institute warns that an unexpectedly abrupt decline in the supply of water for China's farmers could threaten world food security. China faces severe grain shortages in the near future because of water depletion due to the current shift of limited water resources from agriculture to industry and cities.
Using vast quantities of water to make large areas of grass artificially green so that relatively few people can walk around on it is morally wrong.
Why on earth can't people leave other people's countries alone, so that they are different and not make them into a slightly warmer version of Surrey. I really like the bit of Portugal we have bought a house in. I like it because it is Portuguese and quite different to here. There are no M & S and no Berni Inns and no English beer and no English football on Sky in restaurants and no bloody hooray-henries playing bloody golf.
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Ellie
I haven't really got involved much in this recent golf topic Peter--but my views are well known!
Thank-you for putting this post here --Ive looked at first two websites but couldn't get third one up(Ill try again later)--it makes most interesting and 'worrying' reading about the water situation
Your last paragraph says it all--your very reasons for wanting to live in Portugal --may I say ?--as a Portuguese & your children too --you love it & its culture --and you didn't move there expecting to live in a 'little bit of Englnad' --these were our sentiments exactly when we went to live there--it used to drive me mad when ex-pats moaned about things 'not being done the English way' etc---
Im not making myself too clear--but I think you know what Im trying to say--and if I get the chance again--I (we) would do it the same way as yourself--and the further from a golf course--the better!
I lived for 6 months once without running water and had to carry every drop--since that time Ive never wasted it---and as you rightly say--you dont want your kiddies to suffer in their future--from overconsumption of any sort--we can well do without any more golf courses(using up ever more water)--but we cant dowithout water--life itself depends on it!
Thank-you for putting this post here --Ive looked at first two websites but couldn't get third one up(Ill try again later)--it makes most interesting and 'worrying' reading about the water situation
Your last paragraph says it all--your very reasons for wanting to live in Portugal --may I say ?--as a Portuguese & your children too --you love it & its culture --and you didn't move there expecting to live in a 'little bit of Englnad' --these were our sentiments exactly when we went to live there--it used to drive me mad when ex-pats moaned about things 'not being done the English way' etc---
Im not making myself too clear--but I think you know what Im trying to say--and if I get the chance again--I (we) would do it the same way as yourself--and the further from a golf course--the better!
I lived for 6 months once without running water and had to carry every drop--since that time Ive never wasted it---and as you rightly say--you dont want your kiddies to suffer in their future--from overconsumption of any sort--we can well do without any more golf courses(using up ever more water)--but we cant dowithout water--life itself depends on it!
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petermeachem
- CVO Senior
- Posts: 253
- Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 10:32 am
Peter - I am not really campaigning from a pro-golf standpoint (I don't even have a set of clubs in the UK), but more to stand up for freedom of the individual.
Whilst I am sure it is true that water tables are reducing, it is also true that nothing on this planet can actually be used, only relocated or transformed.
I belive that it is forecast that the sea levels are rising, due in part to the melting of the Polar Ice caps. This is not surprising, since technically we are currently in an Ice age, cycles of which have been going on for the 4,600 million years that the earth is believed to have existed - so in fact some people believe that the greatest threat is too much water, rather than not enough, albeit salinated water which we currently do not process because of the cost. If water supply becomes as acute as you say, then we will have to have more expensive water treatment systems, but it could be argued that this will offset the problems of rising sea levels to some degree.
Equally, rising sea levels will create a significantly greater ocean surface area for absorbtion of water into the atmosphere, which combined with the forecast rise in temperature will create greater rainfall, in turn topping up the water table.
Humans are going to prove to be the least successful species ever to occupy the Earth, but they will not kill the environment - only the one that Humans need to sustain life. It would be ignorant of us to say that we are so important we are the only thing that matters - long after we are gone other species will adapt and the Earth will once again revert to it's natural equilibrium. Humans have effectively become a virus to the Earth and the planet will win this particular battle!
My humble view on the golfing point is that just because you don't participate it or enjoy it does not necessarily mean that it should be abolished, or any growth should be thwarted. Almost any activity undertaken by Humans involves some kind of environmental consequence, and it will be a sad day when just because the majority do not participate in something it is to be pilloried.
All of us on this site use aeroplanes. They are, without doubt, environmentally disastrous, and there are many people who do not fly who would call for any increase in air travel to be disallowed - something that I am sure we may all think in our hearts would be a good thing, but then our heads and our wallets would shout the opposite.
It is also well known on this site that I have a strong dislike of football, and therefore in my opinion the new stadium at Loule is a complete waste of resources and a blot on the landscape. However I appreciate that there are many that do enjoy this sport, that the stadium will bring employment and prosperity to the area, and indeed if demand is so strong for this facility I would have no objections to another one being built, even though it is of absolutely no benefit (and probably of detriment) to me personally.
Live and let live, let others enjoy their activities as you enjoy yours, and bear in mind that simply using the electricity to turn on your computer is damaging to the environment in some small way. (and not many golfers wear dodgy Rupert trousers any more and I have yet to meet a Hooray Henry on the course).
Graham
PS I always walk to the golf course, but have you noticed how Ramblers always have to drive somewhere to start their walks - perhaps they should be banned as well? - and if you want daft clothing then look no further than a bunch of ramblers on a sunny day
Whilst I am sure it is true that water tables are reducing, it is also true that nothing on this planet can actually be used, only relocated or transformed.
I belive that it is forecast that the sea levels are rising, due in part to the melting of the Polar Ice caps. This is not surprising, since technically we are currently in an Ice age, cycles of which have been going on for the 4,600 million years that the earth is believed to have existed - so in fact some people believe that the greatest threat is too much water, rather than not enough, albeit salinated water which we currently do not process because of the cost. If water supply becomes as acute as you say, then we will have to have more expensive water treatment systems, but it could be argued that this will offset the problems of rising sea levels to some degree.
Equally, rising sea levels will create a significantly greater ocean surface area for absorbtion of water into the atmosphere, which combined with the forecast rise in temperature will create greater rainfall, in turn topping up the water table.
Humans are going to prove to be the least successful species ever to occupy the Earth, but they will not kill the environment - only the one that Humans need to sustain life. It would be ignorant of us to say that we are so important we are the only thing that matters - long after we are gone other species will adapt and the Earth will once again revert to it's natural equilibrium. Humans have effectively become a virus to the Earth and the planet will win this particular battle!
My humble view on the golfing point is that just because you don't participate it or enjoy it does not necessarily mean that it should be abolished, or any growth should be thwarted. Almost any activity undertaken by Humans involves some kind of environmental consequence, and it will be a sad day when just because the majority do not participate in something it is to be pilloried.
All of us on this site use aeroplanes. They are, without doubt, environmentally disastrous, and there are many people who do not fly who would call for any increase in air travel to be disallowed - something that I am sure we may all think in our hearts would be a good thing, but then our heads and our wallets would shout the opposite.
It is also well known on this site that I have a strong dislike of football, and therefore in my opinion the new stadium at Loule is a complete waste of resources and a blot on the landscape. However I appreciate that there are many that do enjoy this sport, that the stadium will bring employment and prosperity to the area, and indeed if demand is so strong for this facility I would have no objections to another one being built, even though it is of absolutely no benefit (and probably of detriment) to me personally.
Live and let live, let others enjoy their activities as you enjoy yours, and bear in mind that simply using the electricity to turn on your computer is damaging to the environment in some small way. (and not many golfers wear dodgy Rupert trousers any more and I have yet to meet a Hooray Henry on the course).
Graham
PS I always walk to the golf course, but have you noticed how Ramblers always have to drive somewhere to start their walks - perhaps they should be banned as well? - and if you want daft clothing then look no further than a bunch of ramblers on a sunny day
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petermeachem
- CVO Senior
- Posts: 253
- Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 10:32 am
I fully agree with a lot of that, and don't start me on ramblers. (How do you get on the Grumpy Old Men programme? I'd be a natural.)
I think the problem is not so much a lack of water, but there is too much of the wrong sort of water. It is currently expensive to remove salt from water, perhaps it will get cheaper if the problem worsens. But that is probably many years in the future.
According to those articles, there are many areas where the amount of water being sucked out of the ground is more than that being put in, which means that fresh underground water is being replaced with salt water in coastal areas. I recall that this is happening to some extent in the Algarve.
I don't actually mind people playing golf. What I object to is the artificial nature of the courses which makes them stick out like sore thumbs in what was a perfectly pleasant bit of countryside. Live and let live is ok, but you also respect 'thou shalt not use more than thy fair share of stuff'.
This is interesting, not only for the % of water used for grass, but also the mammoth amount used by the americans. https://websafe.kemainc.com/websiteapu/ ... sp?subID=2
(must do some work!)
I think the problem is not so much a lack of water, but there is too much of the wrong sort of water. It is currently expensive to remove salt from water, perhaps it will get cheaper if the problem worsens. But that is probably many years in the future.
According to those articles, there are many areas where the amount of water being sucked out of the ground is more than that being put in, which means that fresh underground water is being replaced with salt water in coastal areas. I recall that this is happening to some extent in the Algarve.
I don't actually mind people playing golf. What I object to is the artificial nature of the courses which makes them stick out like sore thumbs in what was a perfectly pleasant bit of countryside. Live and let live is ok, but you also respect 'thou shalt not use more than thy fair share of stuff'.
This is interesting, not only for the % of water used for grass, but also the mammoth amount used by the americans. https://websafe.kemainc.com/websiteapu/ ... sp?subID=2
(must do some work!)
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petermeachem
- CVO Senior
- Posts: 253
- Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 10:32 am
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Ellie
Having a go at 'ramblers ' eh?mm
Well --I ramble(alright--admittedly with 'words' as well at times!) but Im a 'solitary' one as that it is how I prefer it. Daft clothes Graham! I wear jeans boots sweater/waterproof (mostly in greenish shades)--whats daft about those
and I 'dont' use a car to get to a walk --but Im lucky in that I have some beautiful countryside on my doorstep-I use my car as least as possible!
I'm disappointed Peter that you disapprove of ramblers too---if it wasn't for some of those folk--all our public footpaths would be closed down by belligerent 'awkward' bloody farmers
I walk regularly--and recently on went on a familiar cross country walk only to find that a farmer had 'ploughed' right across a footpath and installed barbed wire across access.
Im now on the warpath and in contact with local authorities to see what can be done about it
I dont hate golfers and believe in peoples liberty to pursue their chosen sport/enjoyment and I dont believe Ive critised their apparel!
But surely there are enough courses in Algarve now to satisfy ?
Please leave some space /natural countryside for Peters children & their kids to grow up in
Im going to try those other sites now Peter!
Well --I ramble(alright--admittedly with 'words' as well at times!) but Im a 'solitary' one as that it is how I prefer it. Daft clothes Graham! I wear jeans boots sweater/waterproof (mostly in greenish shades)--whats daft about those
and I 'dont' use a car to get to a walk --but Im lucky in that I have some beautiful countryside on my doorstep-I use my car as least as possible!
I'm disappointed Peter that you disapprove of ramblers too---if it wasn't for some of those folk--all our public footpaths would be closed down by belligerent 'awkward' bloody farmers
I walk regularly--and recently on went on a familiar cross country walk only to find that a farmer had 'ploughed' right across a footpath and installed barbed wire across access.
Im now on the warpath and in contact with local authorities to see what can be done about it
I dont hate golfers and believe in peoples liberty to pursue their chosen sport/enjoyment and I dont believe Ive critised their apparel!
But surely there are enough courses in Algarve now to satisfy ?
Please leave some space /natural countryside for Peters children & their kids to grow up in
Im going to try those other sites now Peter!
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Ellie
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Guest
it was tiny tim on the other thread who told us that one algarve course he knows uses 2,8 million litres of water a day, which equals the consumption of 18666 people.....if indeed there were to be 88 golf course built..then according to my calculater this would the same for approx 1.6 million people...thats a lot of water.
well if such things came to be, then it would be good to start building more dams. they will need them thats for sure
martin
well if such things came to be, then it would be good to start building more dams. they will need them thats for sure
martin
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petermeachem
- CVO Senior
- Posts: 253
- Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 10:32 am
That made me laugh Gambrinus.
Like everything Ellie, it's the obsessive few that spoil things. I used to do trialling (before the children). http://www.actc.org.uk/ Now that car trying to drive up that mud is probably on a RUPP (road used as public path). Certain elements in the Ramblers Association think that these should not be used by cars but only by walkers. They used to cause all sorts of trouble.
I sound like a right old misery don't I.
Re the house. Communication is a little hard. The people who are actually doing the work haven't got a phone, so we have to leave a message with someone who sees them sometimes. Getting there eventually.
Like everything Ellie, it's the obsessive few that spoil things. I used to do trialling (before the children). http://www.actc.org.uk/ Now that car trying to drive up that mud is probably on a RUPP (road used as public path). Certain elements in the Ramblers Association think that these should not be used by cars but only by walkers. They used to cause all sorts of trouble.
I sound like a right old misery don't I.
Re the house. Communication is a little hard. The people who are actually doing the work haven't got a phone, so we have to leave a message with someone who sees them sometimes. Getting there eventually.
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Ellie
Peter re: the house --it sounds a little like here in UK! My friend in next village has been having extension built since last August and theyve only just got above ground floor window!! Builders 'disappeared' for a week recently--similar experience of friend in Mexhilhoeira grande(but it did eventually get built!)
Yes --I agreeabout the 'excessive few' spoiling things--and though I care very much for preservation of countryside-and wild animals habitat--I couldn't go to the extreme lengths that others do!
No--youre not a 'right old misery'--just a person who cares and tries to be fair! and youre thinking of your kids future which is most important
G--do you mean golf courses on MARS? Blimey--will it ever stop? or d'you mean transporting water back here? Oh lord --what with mining for helium on the moon --theres gonna a be some big 'traffic jams up there'--evermore pollution --no -- it wont happen--will it 
Yes --I agreeabout the 'excessive few' spoiling things--and though I care very much for preservation of countryside-and wild animals habitat--I couldn't go to the extreme lengths that others do!
No--youre not a 'right old misery'--just a person who cares and tries to be fair! and youre thinking of your kids future which is most important
G--do you mean golf courses on MARS? Blimey--will it ever stop? or d'you mean transporting water back here? Oh lord --what with mining for helium on the moon --theres gonna a be some big 'traffic jams up there'--evermore pollution
--no -- it wont happen--will it