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Advice needed?!
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Beach Walker
Advice needed?!
A few estate agents suggest purchasers save lawyers fees as they have own lawyers working within their companies. Surely they're working in the vendor's interests. Has this been successful for anyone?!
I cannot comment on the internal lawyers query, except that lawyers ususally work with their own interests in mind 
.
What I can tell you, is that you will probably be needing legal advice for future endeavours anyway, so it is probably best to find an independent lawyer who you are able to communicate with directly.
.What I can tell you, is that you will probably be needing legal advice for future endeavours anyway, so it is probably best to find an independent lawyer who you are able to communicate with directly.
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Cynical
From my experiences here you would be better off (if you speak Portuguese) to do all the paperwork yourself. Failing that use an independent lawyer as far away from the Algarve as possible and get someone who speaks Portuguese to also go and get all the documents from the various departments ie land registry (conservatoria de registo predial), notary (cartorio notarial), tax office (financas) etc, so you can then check up on the lawyer and the real estate company. Sorry to say this and be so negative but...Trust NOBODY! Remember the old latin caveat "Let the buyer BEWARE"!!
There are a couple of Lisbon firms with offices down here but I can't recommend anyone.
There are a couple of Lisbon firms with offices down here but I can't recommend anyone.
Most Portuguese do not use lawyers in the process of buying/selling property except possibly for complicated cases.
For any person from abroad I would recomend a lawyer because of the language barrier and the home protocols. Be carefull choosing the lawyer and always ask fos a quotation for the work. As everywhere else in the world they are ususally expensive.
If the property involved has no hangups the process is easy (although not as fast as desired) and may be a Portuguese person you trust can help you.
Paramonte
For any person from abroad I would recomend a lawyer because of the language barrier and the home protocols. Be carefull choosing the lawyer and always ask fos a quotation for the work. As everywhere else in the world they are ususally expensive.
If the property involved has no hangups the process is easy (although not as fast as desired) and may be a Portuguese person you trust can help you.
Paramonte
List of English-speaking Lawyers in the Algarve
http://www.britishembassy.gov.uk/servle ... 7336074976
from the British Embassy
http://www.britishembassy.gov.uk/servle ... 7336074976
from the British Embassy
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cynical
Unfortunately the British Embassy also have some not so reputable lawyers on their list. I know of an ongoing case at the moment. However, this isn't the place to list individual names and circumstances. I think the golden rule is, whoever you choose to use, you should also check out all the paperwork yourself with a friend, who speaks Portuguese (obviously someone with no vested interest). A visit to about 3 different offices and for the cost of a few euros in photocopies (eg land registry "certidoes" normally only cost 1 euro a sheet), will give you much more peace of mind. I don't understand people trying to save costs on using a "cheap" lawyer recommended by a real estate agent, when in the long term this decision could costs you thousands, as well as your health and sanity!!!! The lawyer no doubt gets his full fees in any case via the real estate agent's commission or by some other means. There was an interesting letter in The Portugal News 2nd April Edition called "Perplexed" on this very subject. Worth a read.
I think the bottom line is would you do this in the UK...the answer is probably no, so why do it in a foreign county??
I think the bottom line is would you do this in the UK...the answer is probably no, so why do it in a foreign county??
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Guest
Absolutely Agree...Bad Lawyers cost me £10,000 and two years and a lot of grey hair......(My Lawyer ran off with the money...yes Its true ).......I have learnt many things since I moved here and this sound just awful to say but I have never experienced so much corruption in my life.......and having started a small business..so many non payers......Get a good Lawyer....you get what you pay for...........
Great place to live and I have lots of Portuguese friends......but it's a way of life here......
Great place to live and I have lots of Portuguese friends......but it's a way of life here......
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Beach Walker
Advice needed?!
Appreciate all replies and agree re lawyers, common sense should prevail, its risky and could prove costly to do it alone (particularly on foreign soil). Two estate agents with offices throughout Portugal have offered this service - thought might get feedback, positive or otherwise, from anyone who might have tried it that way.
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cynical
Thought of a couple of things, which may help those in the process of purchasing a property and/or looking for a lawyer.
There are 2 useful websites. One is www.imoppi.pt and the other www.oa.pt.
On the imoppi site you can check whether an estate agent is registered or not ie has an AMI No. and therefore, has valid insurance. Once in the site click on Actividades Imobiliarias, then on Consulta de Empresas. You are given a choice of searching Por Regiao ie by region or Por Formulario ie by AMI No. If you click on Por Regiao a map will appear and then you obviously choose the area you are looking in and then the council district. Click on Sim and a list of all registered agents in the area will appear and then you can click on the individual agent to check all their details and the date their licence expires. For example on checking this morning for Lagoa I found a total of 30 registered agents. You can also check builders Alvaras/licences on this site by clicking on Mercados da Construcao, then Empresas Habilitadas on the left hand side near the bottom and then once again Por Regiao or Por formulario.
The other website is the Portuguese lawyers website. Whilst it can't obviously guarantee a person is reputable, you can at least check that they are qualified and their details ie are they associates (associadades) or an individual etc Once in the site click on Pesquisa de advogados in the top right hand corner and then put in the name ie in the box Nome Profissional and click on Procurar. Their addresses, telephone numbers, email addresses and cedula no are listed.
Hope this helps. I am trying hard not to be cyncial today!
There are 2 useful websites. One is www.imoppi.pt and the other www.oa.pt.
On the imoppi site you can check whether an estate agent is registered or not ie has an AMI No. and therefore, has valid insurance. Once in the site click on Actividades Imobiliarias, then on Consulta de Empresas. You are given a choice of searching Por Regiao ie by region or Por Formulario ie by AMI No. If you click on Por Regiao a map will appear and then you obviously choose the area you are looking in and then the council district. Click on Sim and a list of all registered agents in the area will appear and then you can click on the individual agent to check all their details and the date their licence expires. For example on checking this morning for Lagoa I found a total of 30 registered agents. You can also check builders Alvaras/licences on this site by clicking on Mercados da Construcao, then Empresas Habilitadas on the left hand side near the bottom and then once again Por Regiao or Por formulario.
The other website is the Portuguese lawyers website. Whilst it can't obviously guarantee a person is reputable, you can at least check that they are qualified and their details ie are they associates (associadades) or an individual etc Once in the site click on Pesquisa de advogados in the top right hand corner and then put in the name ie in the box Nome Profissional and click on Procurar. Their addresses, telephone numbers, email addresses and cedula no are listed.
Hope this helps. I am trying hard not to be cyncial today!
Hi beach walker,
....some useful info and advice there from “cynical” …..
Re: “.....thought might get feedback, positive or otherwise”We have bought a total of four properties in Portugal over the last 15 years:
1. bought privately and sold privately, no agents or lawyers involved
2. bought from the construction company and sold thru an AMI agent, no lawyer involved
3. bought from the constructor, no agents or lawyers involved
4. bought from the constructor who used an AMI agent to type out the contract
And we’ve not experienced any problems at all. However my wife is Portuguese and done all the talking…
as paramonte says: “Most Portuguese do not use lawyers in the process of buying/selling property except possibly for complicated cases”
....some useful info and advice there from “cynical” …..
Re: “.....thought might get feedback, positive or otherwise”We have bought a total of four properties in Portugal over the last 15 years:
1. bought privately and sold privately, no agents or lawyers involved
2. bought from the construction company and sold thru an AMI agent, no lawyer involved
3. bought from the constructor, no agents or lawyers involved
4. bought from the constructor who used an AMI agent to type out the contract
And we’ve not experienced any problems at all. However my wife is Portuguese and done all the talking…
as paramonte says: “Most Portuguese do not use lawyers in the process of buying/selling property except possibly for complicated cases”
Legal Searches
I see so many properties with faulty titles in the course of my work that anyone buying a property would be crazy not to get full searches properly done. Whether that be done by a lawyer, a solicitador(a) or some other less qualified person is up to them but make sure it is thorough.