ref Fiscal representation

maccasa · Post by **maccasa** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:53 pm

I know this has been mentioned before, but I now neeed someone to pay my rates each year, having been let down by a totally useless lawyer who informs me he no longer wants to act for me after I discovered he had taken a share of the sale price for my piece of land!

We dont rent so its not that arduous and Sovereign are stupidly expensive

Is it True that anyone can actually act as fiscal rep as long as they are resident in Portugal?

Otherwise anyone know an accountant who would act for me

Bruce Wallis · Post by **Bruce Wallis** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:36 pm

My understanding....very much second hand, is that since the rules have changed, and the rep is far more liable, the various solicitors arent so happy to do it, and if they do, want to charge accordingly.

The problem seems to be to get the local Camra to send the rates bill to a new address. We are struggling with that one at the moment.

Our prob being solicitor doesnt want to know, but our rates need paying.

Watch this space folks!

maccasa · Post by **maccasa** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 11:44 am

last time my architect simply got it from the useless solicitor and paid it for me using the ATM machine, but now I need something more permanent

Gambrinus · Post by **Gambrinus** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 6:04 pm

It would be interesting to hear a more accurate definition of "stupidly expensive" considering the huge responsibility that is fiscal representation, not to mention the potencial for considerable additional workload if anything needs changing.

It is hard to put a number on this service, especially because there is a real chance that your "job description" will change on a regular basis as the laws and requirements change, but I would throw a ballpark figure of about € 500 per year out there - what would you say?

maccasa · Post by **maccasa** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:04 am

We are only looking for someone to pay our land rates - we dont let our property.

The camara send a statement to an address and it can be paid at an ATM

At the moment my architect goes to my lousy solicitor and picks up the demand, then pays it at an ATM after I have transfered the cash to him

The amount is ~ €250/yr for the rates now - the last time my solicitor paid it the sum was €174 and he charged me €40 for paying it! - I thought that was expensive so what else can I say if someone like Sovereign want to charge €235 to join and then another €250/yr to do it?

If they are carrying out a much larger service - then it may be justified but if its only to pay a land rate.???

tomgibson · Post by **tomgibson** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:41 pm

This is the old old story. People seem to want something for nothing.

The point really is that Sovereign are acting on behalf of the non resident owner and are therefore themselves personally liable. Surely they are totally justified in charging a fee commensurate with that responsibility. After all they are an International organisation of some repute with offices to run, staff to pay etc.

I am sure that most people expect to pay their bills when required to do so but sadly not everyone is like that and Sovereign, or anyone else for that matter, have to factor that into the equation also.

Farol · Post by **Farol** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:02 pm

How frequently do you get out to the property in question?

As you don't rent the property out then if you are there during April and have a fiscal number (which you should have) then can't you just have the bill sent to the property and pay it in person when you visit?

If you want to avoid paying for representation you could probably off set the cost of an extra flight against the cost avoidance.

If this isn't possible I'm sure others will correct me.

maccasa · Post by **maccasa** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:57 pm

That sounds a very simple solution - the property is only just being built but when its finshed that would appear to be the best solution.

My solicitor is sending the existing demands - it appears I have one from last year, but how this has happened I dont know as we only got the title deeds in October - however as im coming out to see the bulders in 2 weeks I can pay it then using the ATM

thanks

bifas 1st darling! · Post by **bifas 1st darling!** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:23 pm

If you have a Portuguese bank account you can pay online using the multibanco option.

sanreen · Post by **sanreen** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:30 pm

Are the rates paid in arrears in Portugal? How does it work, as maccasa has received a rates bill from last year? Any replies to help me work out the rate system would be appreciated. Thank you.

ceh · Post by **ceh** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:58 pm

I understand that it is paid in arrears and is based on the Fiscal Value of the property based on the size of the property, location and other elements (air con, proximity of schools, public transport etc).

I have a document that quotes 0.5% of the valuation when it is owned by an individual or a company not registered on the Portuguese Blacklist (I quote directly from a document !) or 5% if the company is on the Blacklist ! Not sure how that relates to the current demand, though.

maccasa · Post by **maccasa** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:18 am

Its rather confusing and in my case an absolute nightmare - when and how the land rates are applied. We bought some land in 2003, got all necessary documentation and planing permissions - we paid land rates for two years before we started to build in April 2005 - after 1 day we were informed that somene else owned the land!

We have now spent two years fighting this before finally "exchanging" any claims on the original piece for another plot from the people who sold me the first piece

The original piece was owned by a portuguese man, having bought it in 2001 from an american - who bouht it from a man in 1965. However the same man sold the same piece of land to a large portuguese company in 1992 and I bought it from them.

The problem was the land registry - two different numbers for the same plot AND we were all paying land rates - so the fiscal department were being paid twice on the same land since 1992!

I cant get my 2 years payment back and the camara are still asking me to pay for 2005 to 2007 as well, even though they have now signed the plot over to only one owner and they even admit they were receiving rates from 2 sources for the same plot!

I am now getting the land rates for the new plot as well and it is these I want tp pay - I shall fight against the other payments.

bradybunch · Post by **bradybunch** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:41 pm

We bought our apartment in Carvoeiro 2 years ago and pay our lawyer that dealt with the purchase to be our fiscal representative.What we didn't realise was because we had the property in joint names, myself and my husband, you are rated per person and not just for the property. If we had just had it in one name we would be saving 50%.

sanreen · Post by **sanreen** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:50 pm

You would think the lawyer would advise you. We have just bought a property and was under the impression that there would be a total amount due and that would be halved between us (our property is in both names). After all there is no benefit having it in both names as I believe in Portugal the property is automatically passed onto the family in event of death.

biffa · Post by **biffa** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:34 pm

This is not right! The tax is levied on the property itself and if the property is owned by 2 persons is levied 50% on each.

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