Tit for Tat

Murphy · Post by **Murphy** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:44 am

Those who don't believe in God end up believing in anything.
The Jews and the Arabs descend from the same forefather-Abraham-a Jew.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:51 am

Christ's message was love one another-do good to them that hate you.
A very difficult thing to do at times.
It seems to me that most religions-organised or otherwise-often have very little to do with God-just man.

Michael Crane · Post by **Michael Crane** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:51 am

Murphy wrote:Those who don't believe in God end up believing in anything.

Anything? I'd have thought it was nothing. It is in my case.

Care to expand?

Murphy · Post by **Murphy** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:53 am

I forgot to put my name to my above message(Guest).
You are right Michael. anything or nothing.

Murphy · Post by **Murphy** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 12:04 pm

By anything Im mainly thinking of materialism-the worship of money-riches.
Into days world everything seems to centre around looks-being perfect-how much you earn -bigger houses.
expensive holidays-Ive seen this amongst friends-whos been where-what it cost-how much they spend on dinners-jewellry-and what for?
A never ending round of disfatisaction-and to my mind -greed.
I dont see you like this Michael.Id say you were a humanist.

Ellie · Post by **Ellie** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 12:27 pm

You believe in NOTHING! Michael ?

I don't believe that.....you surely believe in LOVE...the love for your wife(and hers for you)...the love for your children..your mother..
or do you believe its purely biological..a chemical reaction ?
Love like that is eternel..and has a source..that source is God....

Michael Crane · Post by **Michael Crane** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:09 pm

Of course I believe in love . . . and lots of other things, but I do not beleive in a God or any other omnipotent being (or beings).

I suppose humanist describes me. And you're right, I do not crave the materialistic things of life . . . but I do like to be comfortable

Murphy · Post by **Murphy** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:13 pm

Have just read my daily paper.
Very old Arab woman 92. She has lost 4 children,2sons 2 daughters in attacks on her village by Israelis. The village is called Bethany,the place where Christ raised Lazarus from the dead.
She says that she will die soon but asks the question "Why should I go quietly? They might as well strap a bomb to me so I take others with me"
92. Never had any peace and wants to go out with a bang. So it goes on.
Is there any hope at all?

Michael Crane · Post by **Michael Crane** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:22 pm

Is there any hope at all?

No, not while Israel is allowed to wage war on an oppressed populace without restraint.

If the means of waging war were removed, ($$$$$$$) then things would get better.

You can't 'force' people to live in harmony with their neighbours, but you can at least let them live without fear of suicide bombers or helicopter gunships.

Ellie · Post by **Ellie** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:31 pm

Here here Michael! Isnt it awful..an old lady like that never knowing any peace in her long life.

MattK · Post by **MattK** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 9:18 pm

would definatly have to agree with Michael on this one. If man did not create their gods, then world wouldnt be in the position it is now. The USA has to stop its support of Israels oppresion of their palestinians, arguably we were part of the cause of the whole conflict, we should not have allowed the jews to take the palestinian homeland after ww2.

An intresting point someone made to me the other day over the Iraq war, was that ww3 would be sparked from the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Israel is surrounded by countries who have nothing but hate for them, If one, such as Iraq, was to attack Israel in defence of palestine then we would all be up the creek without a paddle. Israel has been made powerful by the USA so their retaliation would be massive. Then include the possibilty of nuclear weapons being used due to the secrets being traded between muslim nations plus how the USA would stand on the situation. This theory could be argued to be the reason behind the war as these events would arguably be prevented with a strong US presence right in the middle of the middle east. Just a theory but I think it would explain alot e.g. the reason behind the excuse of weapons of mass destruction-the western govts couldnt come out and warn of ww3 in israel as it would send the country into absolute chaos.

It seems to me that the western world has defended Israel, and Israel isnt intrested in peace. That angers me as it is the western world who has suffered at the hands of al qaeda because of the support for Israel.

Matt

Ellie · Post by **Ellie** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:12 pm

I think youre correct Matt..in that the US gov. wanted a toe hold in midle eat..thus the Iraqi war!
It seems the hatred between Arab & Jew will never go and is now a cauldron just waiting to boil over.
My son...just a bit older than yourself I think....went to Egypt a couple of years ago...to teach English for a few months in Heliopolos,Cairo.
Whilst there..he sometimes went to dinner at the house of his Egyptian landlord.. a wealthy Arab.
One night..over dinner.. the subject turned to religion...the Doctor(the landlord) spoke of their Muslim faith and Jamie, my son joined in, saying that.. hadnt they (the muslims) adopted some of their religious laws from the Jews.
The Doctor..somewhat reluctantly...said yes..especially regarding the food they eat..not eating pork..halal /kosher etc.
Then suddenly..the daughter looked up saying .."we really hate the Jews!"
then looked at Jamie saying.." I hope there is no one Jewish here!"..
Son said she held a menacing look in her eyes.
My grandfather(Jamies greatgrandfather) was half Jewish and for those few hours in that house...my son felt very afraid.
He did go back there to dine as they always made him welcome...but he said after that..he never felt quite safe somehow....and was glad to come home to England a few months later

MattK · Post by **MattK** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:30 pm

Its cases like that that show how petty religous differences can be, someone has to feel threatend because they are accompanied by someone with different beliefs. I heard about a case on the news the other day about a student who had gone travelling to germany. The person found what he thought to be an anti-war group and decided to go along to one of the meetings. It turned out that the group were nazis and when they discovered the student was jewish kidnapped him. The student then jumped from the car he was being taken in, right under an on coming car, killing him.

Ellie, how did your son find teaching english abroard (apart from the time you mentioned above)? It is something I have been looking into and was considering a tefl course. How old was he when he first started doing it and did he need a degree to teach? was it important to be able to speak the native language of the country he was teaching in?

Matt

Ellie · Post by **Ellie** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:58 pm

Evening Matt!
Tragic & scary ..that story of the student.
Isn't it awful..the hatred there is the world?
Anyway..to answer your questions,
No-Jamie didnt have degree before he taught English. He did a tefl course when he was 18 and taught English to foreign students here in UK (when we lived in Essex)..for some time. He also taught in a prison for a while..helping prisoners with writing/reading.
Then he went to Egypt for a few months(just with tefl qualification).
Since living here hes got his degree and has done some private teaching of English.
Jamies just told me to tell you--get the Guardian on Tuesdays and youll find the teaching posts abroad in the education supplement(thats where he found his Egyptian one)..hope this is help to you Matt

MattK · Post by **MattK** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 1:08 am

thanks for that, it is very encouraging! if i do decide to try teaching english to fund travel, I will be doing it before university like your son, so its good to see that there will be opportunities for me with the TEFL qualification. Thank your son for the Guardian tip, very helpful,

Matt