The Square

[fmm]

WHat happened to the plan to put a multi storey carpark on restaurant hill near the market?

[Aldo]

The land is now for sale, so who knows??
Lets hope they improve the square to give some character back, the new tourist office is not in keeping at all. Its amusing watching the cars go around the tight bend, none keep to the track, its like wacky races!!

[shanagarry]

Put yourself in the position of the residents living in the apartments above the restaurants/bars in Estrado do Farol (restaurant hill) - where are they supposed to park? I don't imagine they are too concerned where the tourists park - would you be?

With some forethought it is possible to create an entire pedestrian only area taking in the square, the in-road (as far as the post office), the out-road (as far as the cut through from the in-road) and Estrado do Farol (up to the Santander Bank). I take the point made by Gambrinus regarding the hills - all of which could be overcome with 2 subsidised trains operating in opposite directions 12 hours a day during the summer season and suitable hours out of season.

Carvoeiro enjoys a favourable reputation due to the quaint nature of the village - it has attracted people for decades as a result. The village was not built at a time when car dependency was an issue. I am a firm believer that making the car fit around the village should be the priority - not the opposite. Modifying it to become a Villamoura or similar would be the 'kiss-of-death'.

[td]

Aldo - wacky races be damned - it's downright dangerous. I have seen people wandering into the middle of the 'road' because there is no apparent distinction between it and a pavement.

I agree with td - a pedestrian area, but would add - with access for loading/unloading between very specific times and policed accordingly.

[sanreen]

Shanagarry, do you mean you want it to go back to the diversion layout it was before the square was finished? Diverting traffice through Monte Dourado was highly dangerous for pedestrians and cars. I never felt safe walking through Monte Dourado when the diversion was on, I dread to think how parents with children felt. I also saw a few near misses with cars and vans. The idea of the trains is a good one. I personally think they should have just taken away the car parking on the square and made a bigger updated square.

[td]

Gambrinus - your point regarding the 'climb' to get out of the village after an evening out should be welcomed as it offers an opportunity to 'shift' the ballast taken on board during the preceding 2- 3 hours. As far as hauling shopping is concerned I can't see that as a problem - given that all of the large supermarkets are outside the village anyway. Those small supermarkets that are usually used for small purchases - and would, I suggest, not result in the need to carry heavy bags anyway.

The more I think about it - the more I favour of a pedestrian precinct - probably with access for taxis and the disabled (but not their cars).

[shanagarry]

Sanreen - you refer to Monte Dourado being dangerous - it's no different to Lagoa Centre, Portimao Centre or even the village. Portuguese drivers do not have their appalling driving reputation for nothing - which does not bode well for any attempt at traffic/congestion control.

You have to adopt a pedestrian 'beware' mindset. If you think or believe that the average Portuguese driver (usually under 23) is going to acknowledge or comply with a traffic signal or notice - forget it. While we have to provide a safe environment for the children and their parents/Grand-parents - waiting for the day that a young Portuguese driver will take the time to accommodate them - will not happen in my lifetime. The pedestrian only area is, in my opinion, the solution - as long as a reliable means (optional) of transporting them around is made available.

[sanreen]

Shanagarry, I totally agree with you regarding the Portuguese drivers. However I don't think you can compare Lagoa or Portimao Centre, with Monte Dourado. Monte Dourado is a holiday complex. The Monte Dourado hill was never designed as a main road. It was for access to Monte Dourado complex.

[shanagarry]

Sanreen - I accept that Monte Dourado is a holiday complex and wasn't necessarily suggesting that it should be the route. While I realise it is very hilly in that area, I am sure it is not beyond the wit of man to create a road there. After all they have built houses that appear to hang off the rock face

[Barry]

As I said during the reconstruction of the square, you can see from the plan on my photo record that there was no proper cobbled link over the square to connect the in and the out roads. I understand that Lagoa council blame this on the design being produced in Lisboa. The current route was a temporary fix which became permanent. That is why it is paved to pedestrian standards, not vehicular. I still think that unless traffic is banned from the square, as may have been the original intention, the link should be in front of Soares garrafeira. It would need to be cobbled, and wide enough for a bus to negotiate. Then the whole area south to the beach wall would be traffic free. Shade trees planted in soil, not pots, and lighting that does not look like it came from the side of a motorway, would sort it for me. But that's only my opinion.

[shanagarry]

Let's cut to the chase - does the Camara have the money or the will to completely revamp the current layout - not a hope

Will it be a case of he who shouts loudest (the trader) or he who pays his rates (us) get their way? I don't believe there will be any more money spent on The Square anytime soon - regardless of the lobbying or our preferences. It might take an 'incident' to change things - even then I would be sceptical.

[TomUK]

EMM mentioned Albufeira, Lagos, Vilamoura and the facilities there. I would suggest that the layout of these places makes it easier to allocate spaces. CVO is, by it's geography, squeezed in between two headlands. Bergau is similar in that the steep drop down to the beach and the narrow confines in the town mean the only substantial car parking accomodation must be up the hill on the outskirts.

Albufeira is getting (it may now be finished) a multi storey car park at the top of the hill near the escalator - although this is not particularly attractive it is at least out of the town centre and utilises a piece of rough land that was parked on already. No doubt fees will be charged to help with buildng/running costs

The extensive Lagos 'pay at the exit barrier' car park has been out of action since the waterfront improvement works began in 2008. It is to be replaced on the same spot but will now be an underground car park - so that at least will be an improvement. Obviously, the money was found for this. There is also a good underground car park in Portimao of course.

An underground car park under the square in CVO is a non-starter - the area is not big enough and the works would cause havoc for ages. As I suggested earlier, a facility on the outskirts of CVO, served by a shuttle bus (or the tourist train) would enable CVO to become traffic free without putting motorised visitors from enjoying a day in the town. Currently, we always park at the top of Rua do Farol and saunter back down. Fortunately we are able bodied enough to make the journey back up. It just a case of taking your time - which is what a holiday is all about anyway (unless you go white water rafting!).

[Barry]

For what it is worth, they appear to be removing all of the paving where the current road runs. What is the betting that it will be replaced with calcada (cobbles) and the current square split into two by the road will be permanent. Hope I'm wrong.

[maccasa]

I see on the webcam that the square is blocked off - whats happened - waves/sand gone over the beach/square in the high winds? or just repairing the broken slabs

[Bruce Wallis]

The local camra has realised that decorative stones on a sand base may look good, but arent the best road surfaces for huge lorries and 56 seat tourist coaches!!

Its odd....they have been repairing roads all around the area, but just leaving them with a sand and hogging base.....obviously intending to come back and ashphelt everywhere in one big drive. Problem is that all the rain has washed the sand out out of these roadworks....and we have a growing number of large holes in the roads.