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private road
private road
had a drive to Villamoura & back today, went on the A22, it's basically a private road, saw maybe 3 cars going in the same direction each way, great for a relaxing drive but commercially is a total cock up 
Re: private road
A friend who is holidaying in Praia da Luz in 2 weeks time asked me what the deal was with the A22 tolls. I explained all the options.
His immediate reaction was that he would take the N125 because he just didn't want the aggro. That's the problem.
Booze up in a beer factory springs to mind
His immediate reaction was that he would take the N125 because he just didn't want the aggro. That's the problem.
Booze up in a beer factory springs to mind
Re: private road
From what I have read they are considering changes. What seems to be proposed is to put new gantries on each entrance road ( making the existing defunct) so as to catch all motorists. At the moment existing gantries are on alternate sections and they seem to think they are losing money on the sections that are effectively free if you only use that section. A set fee may be considered. No mention of making payment any easier. If this goes ahead it will be a further waste of money and solve very little.
When on the N125 going to Faro at one point you can see a long flyover of the A22. It is obvious that there is little traffic, I think one day it was so busy I saw 3 cars and a van. Meanwhile there are cars all around on the N125.
When on the N125 going to Faro at one point you can see a long flyover of the A22. It is obvious that there is little traffic, I think one day it was so busy I saw 3 cars and a van. Meanwhile there are cars all around on the N125.
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Lesley Jean
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Re: private road
The A22 was built to take the traffic away from the N125 as it had become one of the most dangerous roads in Europe! Now they have just pushed all that traffic back onto the N125 and the motorway is virtually empty .... what progress was that!!!Has anyone taken the government to the courts in Europe yet? I believe the money for the motorway was given to Portugal from the EU on the condition it was NOT a toll road or have I got that wrong?
What with the tolls and the receipt fiasco they are just giving tourists even more reason for not going to this beautiful country which desperately needs the income
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James Faro
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Re: private road
So I would assume all the lorries that frequented the A22 now use the N125 causing more jams and pollution.
This is a classic example where planners see a load of traffic on the A22 thinking that a toll on them will reap in rewards. It may have been the case if there was no N125!
The owners of this fiasco can do two things (a)abolish the whole scheme or if that is too politically sensitive (b) offer very attractive incentives. They could propose a monthly pass and for a reasonable fee and motorists use the A22 as much as they like. It will least reduce the loss the scheme is incurring.
When you land at Faro and want a holiday stress-free the last thing you want is worrying about toll charges and incurring penalties each time you venture onto the A22! Nor do holidaymakers want to take N125 route which was not even ideal before the A22 became tollable!
This is a classic example where planners see a load of traffic on the A22 thinking that a toll on them will reap in rewards. It may have been the case if there was no N125!
The owners of this fiasco can do two things (a)abolish the whole scheme or if that is too politically sensitive (b) offer very attractive incentives. They could propose a monthly pass and for a reasonable fee and motorists use the A22 as much as they like. It will least reduce the loss the scheme is incurring.
When you land at Faro and want a holiday stress-free the last thing you want is worrying about toll charges and incurring penalties each time you venture onto the A22! Nor do holidaymakers want to take N125 route which was not even ideal before the A22 became tollable!
Re: private road
didn't see a single lorry on the A22 James so they must all be on the 125, I was overtaken by a couple of youngsters in 1.2 engined cars doing 180kph+, not even coaches or mini buses with punters going to the airport, I think the locals simply don't want to pay & it's too complicated for visitors
Re: private road
Most of the Irish motorways were built with EU assistance and most are also private/government partnership. There are tolls on all bar one (guess where the minister was from when that one was opened). So I don't think there is any chance of a court case succeeding. The main differences between Portugal and Ireland are 1) much cheaper by kilometer than Portugal 2) much easier to pay - by the electronic device, by bucket, by credit card linked to you number plate 3) in ADVANCE or up to 1 day after use in almost any shop for the only non bucket toll bridge. The tolls are fixed rate so much easier to collect. On a stretch of motorway in distance from Lagos to the Tavira would be about €1.80 -€1.90. Dublin to Galway (just over 200 kms) has two tolls, with a total cost of €3.80. Not really worth the hassle of diverting on to other roads to avoid €1.90 and the same would happen in Portugal is they just copped on.Lesley Jean wrote:
Has anyone taken the government to the courts in Europe yet? I believe the money for the motorway was given to Portugal from the EU on the condition it was NOT a toll road or have I got that wrong?
Re: private road
Some info on the legal process here:
http://porta7.ch/fr/scut-portagens-sao- ... -europeia/
Google translation:
The tolls on SCUT old is illegal, the European Commission considers that Portugal threatens a lawsuit in the European Court of Justice if the situation is not remedied. The Commission therefore responds to the complaint filed in November 2010 by the Municipality of Aveiro which advocates the introduction of tolls in ex-Scuts is "an unjustified infringement of the principle of free movement of people and a flagrant violation of the principle of non-discrimination on grounds of nationality. " Given the facts, the Commission upheld the complaint against the state authority Portuguese, about the introduction of tolls on the old highway 'No Cost to Users ", that cross the county of Aveiro - A17, A25 and A29 .
***
Opinion valid for all SCUT
In a statement, the Board of Aveiro added that Brussels has requested "a request for clarification from the Portuguese Government and the inadequacy of the response given by the national authorities, the formal submission of a reasoned opinion asking for more explanations and documentation to justify the legislation passed, the its meaning and scope, and the exemptions that it introduces the European legal order. " The European Commission finally considered that the collection of tolls on the old highway 'No Cost to Users "is illegal and warned that if Portugal does not change the rules that infringe Community law, send the case to the Court of Justice of the European Union. For Ricardo Oliveira, partner at PLMJ Practice of European Law and Competition, the opinion of Brussels should have the same impact on all SCUT, since 'the legislation in question is general, although the Commission may reasonably be expected be more concerned with the SCUT that are most used by citizens of other Member States who travel to Portugal, particularly near the border with Spain. " The expert told the Express that the Commission can try an action before the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) to impose a fine, but points out that Portugal will not have to return EU funds for highways, since "there is no allegation that these funds have been misused. " On the other hand, Gonçalo Anastasius, the SRS lawyers explained that the action EXPRESS not arrive at the ECJ, the process may take two or three years to be decided.
***
Any Member State may act
"But if the Commission chooses not to bring the action before the ECJ, it would always be possible to another Member State to do so, for example, neighboring Spain), although this is very rare and exceptional," added the lawyer. The Chamber of Aveiro ensures that "continue to monitor this process and develop the steps that may be appropriate to remedy the illegalities on which the toll system introduced in former Scuts, not excluding the adoption of new initiatives with the European Commission responsible for with responsibility for transport and along the Portuguese MEPs in the European Parliament ', concludes in a statement.
http://porta7.ch/fr/scut-portagens-sao- ... -europeia/
Google translation:
The tolls on SCUT old is illegal, the European Commission considers that Portugal threatens a lawsuit in the European Court of Justice if the situation is not remedied. The Commission therefore responds to the complaint filed in November 2010 by the Municipality of Aveiro which advocates the introduction of tolls in ex-Scuts is "an unjustified infringement of the principle of free movement of people and a flagrant violation of the principle of non-discrimination on grounds of nationality. " Given the facts, the Commission upheld the complaint against the state authority Portuguese, about the introduction of tolls on the old highway 'No Cost to Users ", that cross the county of Aveiro - A17, A25 and A29 .
***
Opinion valid for all SCUT
In a statement, the Board of Aveiro added that Brussels has requested "a request for clarification from the Portuguese Government and the inadequacy of the response given by the national authorities, the formal submission of a reasoned opinion asking for more explanations and documentation to justify the legislation passed, the its meaning and scope, and the exemptions that it introduces the European legal order. " The European Commission finally considered that the collection of tolls on the old highway 'No Cost to Users "is illegal and warned that if Portugal does not change the rules that infringe Community law, send the case to the Court of Justice of the European Union. For Ricardo Oliveira, partner at PLMJ Practice of European Law and Competition, the opinion of Brussels should have the same impact on all SCUT, since 'the legislation in question is general, although the Commission may reasonably be expected be more concerned with the SCUT that are most used by citizens of other Member States who travel to Portugal, particularly near the border with Spain. " The expert told the Express that the Commission can try an action before the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) to impose a fine, but points out that Portugal will not have to return EU funds for highways, since "there is no allegation that these funds have been misused. " On the other hand, Gonçalo Anastasius, the SRS lawyers explained that the action EXPRESS not arrive at the ECJ, the process may take two or three years to be decided.
***
Any Member State may act
"But if the Commission chooses not to bring the action before the ECJ, it would always be possible to another Member State to do so, for example, neighboring Spain), although this is very rare and exceptional," added the lawyer. The Chamber of Aveiro ensures that "continue to monitor this process and develop the steps that may be appropriate to remedy the illegalities on which the toll system introduced in former Scuts, not excluding the adoption of new initiatives with the European Commission responsible for with responsibility for transport and along the Portuguese MEPs in the European Parliament ', concludes in a statement.