Tolls!

[shanagarry]

Does "not a formal resident" indicate a releaxed approach to the legal requirements of residencia

Not that it's any of your business but in addition to Portugal (where we spend a lot of time and would prefer to be - which regretfully has become less), I live and work in the UK, Germany, Scandinavia, and Ireland - so much so that I must almost be on first name terms with Michael O Leary (Ryanair) - given my weekly commute to the places mentioned. If you can work that one out - do so.

Must rush - off to the airport

[steve]

Have a good journey. Yopur accountant must have a headache. I am glad to hear that you are a frequent visitor rather than an illegal resident. I get a bit fed up with effectively subsidising people who live here for more than 183 days a year but do not take out residencia or submit tax returns here.

[ron5000]

Portuguese lunch time news today ran a story about Algarve tolls, looks like payment by multibanco
at any hole in the wall is going to be an option

[e-richard]

How do you enter a car registration number into a Multi-Banco machine ?

I suspect, its only going to be useful for pre-registered payments and thus still not helpful for tourists and rental cars.

[RichardHenshall]

Regardless of the registration number question, are any relevant Multibanco functions available to non-Portuguese bank cards?

[shanagarry]

an illegal resident.

I hadn't intended replying to your comment mainly because it has absolutely nothing to do with Tolls - and I just couldn't be bothered starting a new topic - so if it gets bounced - so be it. On my return flight here last night, I was seated beside a person who would probably meet your definition of an illegal resident. As I can only assume your definition to mean somebody who resides here but has not undertaken the Residencia process and does not pay income tax here in Portugal - but does in their own jurisdiction?

Because I travel to/fro a lot I have become acquainted with a few people who commute on a regular basis. In the winter months we are more conspicuous and we tend to strike up a conversation just to while away the time. My fellow passenger has lived here permanently for 27 years, drives a two year old UK registered car (his wife drives a Portuguese registered car), commutes to the UK an average 8 days per month and has never and never intends becoming a resident in the legal sense. He is not local to here - he lives in Sao Bras. I mentioned your comment and he laughed suggesting you were probably naive in thinking that ex-pats, regardless of nationality, rush to take out formal residencia. Your legal interpretation may be right - but the reality is very different. He says he knows many families (of all nationalities) here and none of them have formal residencia or have any plans to either.

He claimed that he pays taxes here in the form of property and other legitimate charges - he consumes Portuguese goods and services, he shops in Portuguese shops and pays their IVA, he buys fuel and pays the excessive IVA on that and says that if he had to depend on Portugal to pay him a living wage, he would never be able to afford to consume the way he has done for the past 27 years. His logic being that he has to work in the UK to pay his way here and like the rest of us loves it here. I can't argue with that and wondered curiously if there is any statistic that can quantify the amount the local exchequer benefits from ex-pat residents as opposed to holiday makers? I know a Portuguese family living in West Sussex who take the same view as my fellow passenger and have done so for the past 18 years.

I know that when the time comes for us to decide when or if we intend on staying here permanently - the same thought process will take place. I have always questioned the rights and wrongs of having an open-border policy for all EU members - because I fail to see why law abiding Europeans (EU) can't cross each other's frontiers and reside where they like - without having to go through the cumbersome bureaucratic process. I understand all the stuff about taxes to support the infrastructure but in these times of bail-outs the money is being spread around to give to the less well off states by those who have it to 'give away' - so it all balances out in the end - doesn't it?

As a result of all this I believe that the term 'illegal resident' applies to those non-contributors who do not pay anything anywhere are covered by your definition. Yes I know the law says something very different - but laws and common sense are distant relatives

[EMM]

A logical arguement which unfortunately will mean nothing if and when the " financas " catches up with those who behave in this way.
There will be little if anything you can do about it other than pay up .
One day the various goverment bodies in Portugal will share the information they have on us and then for some there will either be a rush for the exit or to quickly become " legal " residents

[steve]

If you are tax resident in Portugal you should pay your tax here. Simples. It has nothing to do with IVA. All visitors pay this on goods and services bought here. You have to pay property taxes if you own a house here irrespective of whther you spend any time her at all. I am sure there would be an outcry in the UK if foreigners were seen to behave in this manner there.

I too know of people who do not comply with their legal requirements as regards tax payment but that does not make it right

[e-richard]

I am sure there would be an outcry in the UK if foreigners were seen to behave in this manner there.

I am sure there are plenty of foreigners in the UK (and every other country in the world) who DO behave like that.
It doesn't make it right, and Portugal is not unique in this respect.

[S_Monty]

Just back from my second trip to the beautiful Algarve since the tolls were introduced.

On the first trip at the end of January, when picking up the hire care I signed a form agreeing any toll charges could be charged to my credit card. None ever were despite using the A22 to / from the airport.

This time round, when picking up the hire car at Faro, the tolls weren't even mentioned! No form to sign, no transponder in the car, no charges, nothing.

[cereza]

It depends on which rental company you use Monty. My one was the same as your last one ie no transponder and no info - nada !!
I only used the A22 to the airport on my way home - told the car company rep who shrugged his shoulders and said - "They might bill you later - maybe !" - I won't be losing any sleep over it

[joeysoap]

Just back from my second trip to the beautiful Algarve since the tolls were introduced.

On the first trip at the end of January, when picking up the hire care I signed a form agreeing any toll charges could be charged to my credit card. None ever were despite using the A22 to / from the airport.

This time round, when picking up the hire car at Faro, the tolls weren't even mentioned! No form to sign, no transponder in the car, no charges, nothing.

same here. used the motorway in december and nothing yet. This time - same hire company - they gave me back the credit card impress at the airport, so they must be pretty confident that there will be no charges.

[S_Monty]

Well guys its been a while since we've had any discussion on the subject that has a special place in everyones heart!

Earlier in the year when we were smirking about taking our rental cars up and down the A22 with no toll charges ever getting passed on, the general concensus was this would be sorted out before peak summer holiday season. Well were not far away now, and so far as I can gather not a lot has changed. It would appear rental cars can be picked up at Faro, driven up and down the A22 and toll charges never find their way through to the user.

Does anybody have any further updates to this? or is anyone aware of anything pending in the pipeline before "the rush" which will change arrangements?