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nightrider
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nightrider
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Guestagain
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nightrider
Re: Golf courses
It's frightening is'nt it.
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guest again
So exactly what happens to this water when it goes on a golf course to grow grass, as opposed to going on fields to grow crops?
Does one type of water vary from the other?
Does the golf course water turn to sulphuric acid or similar?
Does the crop water turn into a decent claret?
Can someone explain to me the difference.
As a simple man I was led to believe any waste water would percolate into the ground apart from which that is used by the plant, grass or corn would be the same (although grass is smaller it would be more dense, corn is bigger but less dense).
You can have scrub land with few plants therefore likely to turn to desert, whereas an area with plant life and a good root system (grass) will hold the earth together and avoid desertification.
I prefer the idea of plants producing claret - but a golf course can produce the money to buy it (and protect the land at the same time)
Water is water - it will not change into anything except vapour (or O2 when passed through a plant - which expels C O2 at an alarming rate at night, bad plant!)
hey ho ...what do I know
Back to my beer (water - with plant extract and a smidge of sugar, a drop of yeast and then a rather nice chemical reaction)
Does one type of water vary from the other?
Does the golf course water turn to sulphuric acid or similar?
Does the crop water turn into a decent claret?
Can someone explain to me the difference.
As a simple man I was led to believe any waste water would percolate into the ground apart from which that is used by the plant, grass or corn would be the same (although grass is smaller it would be more dense, corn is bigger but less dense).
You can have scrub land with few plants therefore likely to turn to desert, whereas an area with plant life and a good root system (grass) will hold the earth together and avoid desertification.
I prefer the idea of plants producing claret - but a golf course can produce the money to buy it (and protect the land at the same time)
Water is water - it will not change into anything except vapour (or O2 when passed through a plant - which expels C O2 at an alarming rate at night, bad plant!)
hey ho ...what do I know
Back to my beer (water - with plant extract and a smidge of sugar, a drop of yeast and then a rather nice chemical reaction)
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nightrider
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Guestagain
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nightrider
Guestagain wrote:Let's not confuse Guest again with Guestagain. And to answer his/her Q about what happens to water after it has been on the golf course; it runs off /leaches into the system with all those lovely nitrates and pesticides added
GUESTAGAIN, Thank you for pointed this out, I must confess that I was somewhat
hence invitation to join forum. Maybe this was done to confuse 
Sorry chaps, and chapessess, that was me, to lazy to log in!
So the nitrates and pesticides on the crops wont leach into the system? Only those from golf courses?
Grass is a very very small plant and requires very little in the way of pesticide, I know very little about grass on courses but it seems to me it is not that much different to the grass in my garden (except more expensive - fairways that is, not the greens)
I live in the countryside and watch the spraying going on to produce an economic crop, I drink with the guys doing it and eat the stuff they produce, thats life. None of my children have 3 eyes or webbed feet. Many of the members of the local course ( not me) are agricultural based,it's the business round here (no developement!).
We have never had a water ban (including 1976) and yet they still have huge sprayers on the crops at the first sign of sunshine! So why do these crops require so much water, just to push the chemicals 400' into the ground? Surely they would survive without it, only with less of a yield? The local golf course is watered less than the fields around it, the only spray they use is a green colour in dry summers as they are metered on water (gentlemen do not lick your balls!) otherwise they let it dry out, fairway is fairway.....rough is rough (and round here it certainly is!)
The discussion over crops or courses should be based on equal terms, crops use pesticides (and need them) more than grass, crops provide food, grass doesn't.
Grass can provide a revenue stream that buys food (anybody complaining about crops being grown for the local riding school, horses produce an amazing amount of methane that is far worse than co2 to the atmosphere! - just for the tourists!!!)
A golf course does not produce food - but it does provide an income to buy the food from someone who does produce it. The breadbasket of portugal is not in the south. The major rivers are in the north, along with the wine growing region. Anyone complaining about the huge amount of pesticides used in that process? Of course not- it wouldn't make economic sense. The algarve is a wonderful place, but it was never a farm.
Rant over....and I'm out tomorrow for a fortnight! - No golf (stupid game), but plenty of food and drink.
Hope to be at scufts on the 2nd!
Chippy
So the nitrates and pesticides on the crops wont leach into the system? Only those from golf courses?
Grass is a very very small plant and requires very little in the way of pesticide, I know very little about grass on courses but it seems to me it is not that much different to the grass in my garden (except more expensive - fairways that is, not the greens)
I live in the countryside and watch the spraying going on to produce an economic crop, I drink with the guys doing it and eat the stuff they produce, thats life. None of my children have 3 eyes or webbed feet. Many of the members of the local course ( not me) are agricultural based,it's the business round here (no developement!).
We have never had a water ban (including 1976) and yet they still have huge sprayers on the crops at the first sign of sunshine! So why do these crops require so much water, just to push the chemicals 400' into the ground? Surely they would survive without it, only with less of a yield? The local golf course is watered less than the fields around it, the only spray they use is a green colour in dry summers as they are metered on water (gentlemen do not lick your balls!) otherwise they let it dry out, fairway is fairway.....rough is rough (and round here it certainly is!)
The discussion over crops or courses should be based on equal terms, crops use pesticides (and need them) more than grass, crops provide food, grass doesn't.
Grass can provide a revenue stream that buys food (anybody complaining about crops being grown for the local riding school, horses produce an amazing amount of methane that is far worse than co2 to the atmosphere! - just for the tourists!!!)
A golf course does not produce food - but it does provide an income to buy the food from someone who does produce it. The breadbasket of portugal is not in the south. The major rivers are in the north, along with the wine growing region. Anyone complaining about the huge amount of pesticides used in that process? Of course not- it wouldn't make economic sense. The algarve is a wonderful place, but it was never a farm.
Rant over....and I'm out tomorrow for a fortnight! - No golf (stupid game), but plenty of food and drink.
Hope to be at scufts on the 2nd!
Chippy
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nightrider
Quote Chippy:The algarve is a wonderful place, but it was never a farm.
Chippy, with respect I can only assume that you are spending your 2 weeks holidays "by the seaside"?
Frankly, I would not know where to start, with the multitude of farm produce grown in the Algarve.
I think that we had better start a word list of Farm Produce of the Algarve, I will start the ball rolling with
ORANGES
Chippy, with respect I can only assume that you are spending your 2 weeks holidays "by the seaside"?
Frankly, I would not know where to start, with the multitude of farm produce grown in the Algarve.
I think that we had better start a word list of Farm Produce of the Algarve, I will start the ball rolling with
ORANGES
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nightrider
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Chippy1
Sorry 
, misspellt Scrufts (that's being held in Silves isn't it?)
Seaside? No, not a beach person, prefer the rocks and trees.
I should have defined my thoughts on "algarve not a farm" clearer....I meant the coastal region, where the developements/golf courses are being built, rather than inland where there is agriculture. I will be taking my usual tour round some favorite places, driving into the alentejo region and upwards. It always seems to me to be far more agricultural there and hardly a golf course in sight.
I thought it was the arab influence in southern portugal that brought irrigation and agriculture to the barren areas of the algarve, citrus fruits and almonds etc "cash crops" (lucky they didn't play golf eh!), the central and northern areas being wetter and more suited to arable (surely a pun there somewhere) farming.
The point I was trying to make was that the use of water, whether on golf courses or orange/almond groves, has the same result - they are both a "cash crop".
I come to Portugal because I enjoy the land and it's history, not for a beach (we have plenty).
The different culture and its climate bring me here, that's what makes me a tourist!
, misspellt Scrufts (that's being held in Silves isn't it?)Seaside? No, not a beach person, prefer the rocks and trees.
I should have defined my thoughts on "algarve not a farm" clearer....I meant the coastal region, where the developements/golf courses are being built, rather than inland where there is agriculture. I will be taking my usual tour round some favorite places, driving into the alentejo region and upwards. It always seems to me to be far more agricultural there and hardly a golf course in sight.
I thought it was the arab influence in southern portugal that brought irrigation and agriculture to the barren areas of the algarve, citrus fruits and almonds etc "cash crops" (lucky they didn't play golf eh!), the central and northern areas being wetter and more suited to arable (surely a pun there somewhere) farming.
The point I was trying to make was that the use of water, whether on golf courses or orange/almond groves, has the same result - they are both a "cash crop".
I come to Portugal because I enjoy the land and it's history, not for a beach (we have plenty).
The different culture and its climate bring me here, that's what makes me a tourist!
Is not the real arguements for or against these new large developments NOT that of alternative uses for water ( golf or oranges ). But rather as Bruxie has said ( apologies if being over familiar ) the possible negative effects of the socio economic structures of the algarve.
At the moment apart from a few areas ( QDL, VDL ) expats are pretty evenly spread throughout the main areas.
We have not seen too many gated communities but as retirement villages develop ( this months portugal magazine ) together with more Pestanas the divisons and problems with the local commumities and beaurocracies will grow.
Perhaps the way forward is to limit this new type of development to areas such as the " golden Triangle " and to put a " maximum size " on new builds elswhere.
This would not mean LESS development but better planned for all concerned.
( The builders, lawyers. beaurocrats, estate agents, bars restaurants, shops etc would still make just as much money ).
At the moment apart from a few areas ( QDL, VDL ) expats are pretty evenly spread throughout the main areas.
We have not seen too many gated communities but as retirement villages develop ( this months portugal magazine ) together with more Pestanas the divisons and problems with the local commumities and beaurocracies will grow.
Perhaps the way forward is to limit this new type of development to areas such as the " golden Triangle " and to put a " maximum size " on new builds elswhere.
This would not mean LESS development but better planned for all concerned.
( The builders, lawyers. beaurocrats, estate agents, bars restaurants, shops etc would still make just as much money ).