more on tourist property licences

Gambrinus · Post by **Gambrinus** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:37 am

UPDATE

LAGOA TOWN COUNCIL REGULATIONS:

HEALTH AND SAFETY:
1. All interior compartments (without exterior windows) of the property must be equipped with a ventilation system that actively induces exterior air.

2. The kitchen is only allowed to be equipped with electrical equipment and must possess equipments to absorb fumes and odors.

3. The property must possess an office to receive public open during the hours stipulated in the articles 46 and 58 of the regulatory decree 34/97 of 17/09. According to a statement obtained by phone, a registered property management company with an operating office will serve this purpose.

4.If the property is not supplied by the public water network the house must be equipped with its own water supply and treatment. This water supply must be equipped with control and filtration systems to ensure the water quality stipulated in the article 7 -3 of the regulatory decree 34/97 of 17/09 and altered by the regulatory decree 14/99 of 14/08 is kept.

5. Residual waters must be eliminated according to article 7 -2 of the regulatory decree 34/97 of 17/09 and altered by the regulatory decree 14/99 of 14/08.

6. The pool installation must be equipped with measuring equipment that ensures the water quality stipulated in article 9 -1 and 55 of the regulatory decree 34/97 of 17/09 and altered by the regulatory decree 14/99 of 14/08.

FIRE SAFETY:
1. Minimum of 2 fire extinguishers

2. Some staircases must have emergency lighting. (why some houses and not others is beyond me)

Further regulations are still chinese to me with a lot of three letter acronyms which I will try and clarify asap.
Edit: Each property must submit a project for fire safety. These projects have to be drawn up by qualified personell and include a central fire detection system which in turn has to be hard-wired to a set number of smoke detectors. We have been told, that smoke detectors have to be fitted in every bedroom, lounge, kitchen and storage as well as longer hallways. Further to this you will need to install at least one panic button on each floor and an exterior siren, each also connected to the central system.

IMPORTANT NOTICE:

These items were collected from the first 6 processes that were returned to us, I will try to keep this updated as we receive more. The information posted here should only serve as a reference and I welcome any feedback which we can cross-reference.

EACH PROPERTY OWNER SHOULD CONDUCT AN INDIVIDUAL CASE STUDY FOR HIS PROPERTY BEFORE TAKING ANY MEASURES OR IMPLEMENTING HEALTH AND SAFETY ITEMS

fmm · Post by **fmm** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:43 am

Brilliant. So I have a 23 year old flat with just a cooker hood extractor fan in the kitchen, no active ventilation system (apart from opening windows), no office (unless you call the Marisqueira an office!). I can buy a couple of fire extinguishers, but the stairs are marble and although lit from above, the stairs themselves are not lit. Don't even understand all the stuff about the water supply ....

Cutting to the chase - does this mean I cannot rent my 2 bedroomed apartment to friends and family? Can I still let people use it for free which is what I have done this year?

Gambrinus · Post by **Gambrinus** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:47 am

This still whole bla bla from the official entities requires a lot of clarification, the decress need to be dug up and interpreted. All this will take a bit of time.

We are working on it.

steveh · Post by **steveh** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:21 pm

Sorry if I sound stupid - but what exactly is a 'ventilation system that actively induces exterior air''?
We have 2 bathrooms with extractor fans but no windows - what on earth would we have to install?

Gambrinus · Post by **Gambrinus** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:53 pm

As far as I understand it, you need to introduce air as well as extract it, but we will seek to clarify this with the local authority.

martin · Post by **martin** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:22 pm

well if all these regulations are enforced, methinks there wont be many houses fully regulated and legal and complying with the law and available for rent.

no doubt all camara offices will also be enforcing on their own premises all these important rules...are you thinking what Im thinking

Gambrinus · Post by **Gambrinus** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:14 pm

methinks it will be a cas of "do as I say, don't do as I do"

charliegill11 · Post by **charliegill11** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:55 pm

does this mean that you cannot have a gas hob in the kitchen - or is it acceptable if you have the equivalent of a landlords gas safety certificate done on annual basis

Gambrinus · Post by **Gambrinus** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:24 am

The report for our gas equipped houses clearly states that you are only allowed to operate electrical equipment in the kitchen - it is our understanding that this excludes gas hobs.

Gas inside houses (hobs, ovens and water heaters) has been a touchy subject for the tourism board ever since the fatal accident that killed a house full of tourists a few years ago. It would not surprise me if they took advantage of the licencing process to get that thorn out of their sides once and for all.

tricky · Post by **tricky** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:56 am

Great

Any idea how much it will cost to replace a gas water heater with an electric one for a 2 bed property, approximate idea would be great.

Thanks
Tricky

e-richard · Post by **e-richard** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:59 pm

Good question Tricky. Sorry don't know the answer to that one, but I think a more significant question, bearing in mind Gambo's comment above, may be:

How many weeks rental will I have to get in order to recoup all the costs of making the property fit the tourist board regs ?

My guess is that in a large number of cases the answer will be "too many", and we'll see a huge reduction in properties for rent and/or a surge in properties for sale.

I know these sentiments have been expressed before, but I repeat them in the context of replacing all gas supplied appliances with electric. There are millions of homes in Western Europe with gas appliances, and provided reasonable precautions are taken and basic safety adhered to, the real danger is minute.

To the Portuguese Tourist Board: Get real folks !

tricky · Post by **tricky** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:51 pm

Hi Richard
I agree that was my first thought, how will this effect the property market?
I think a lot of people will sell their properties because they won't make a profit after all the alterations required on rentals, or they might just keep the properties for themselves, thus reducing the number of visitors to portugal, thus further damaging the tourist industry.
Very Bright That

Tricky

Chippy · Post by **Chippy** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:59 pm

http://www.vent-axia.com/awwebstore/pro ... tro200.asp

This sort of thing - I only know of Vent Axia model Intro 200 - but there are sure to be plenty of others around!

UK - We have to put these (or similar) in any occupied room without opening windows or window vent strips now......makes life a little bit safer I suppose (and more expensive!!)

Gone are the days we could just cut an inch off the bottom off the door!

Ho hummmm....

Chippy · Post by **Chippy** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:07 pm

http://www.firesafetywarehouse.co.uk/

I've used these guys for a year or so - 2ltr CO2 - £27 2ltr Foam £19.50
Both + VAT and delivery (UK of course)
I'm sure there must be a portuguese version of this firm!

One of each is a good combination for a small premise, covers most eventualities! If you need any more.....run like hell!

We need to get them checked every year....I wonder if they have mentioned that? (checking they are full and in working order)

Gambrinus · Post by **Gambrinus** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:48 am

Chippy wrote:We need to get them checked every year....I wonder if they have mentioned that? (checking they are full and in working order)

Yes, extinguishers need to be checked annualy here too.