IMI

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 2:17 am

I wasn't really trying to make a political point, or even complaining about the proposed tax levels. It is just very difficult for us offshore property owners to make a sensible decision what to do, and I am asking the views of other such people. And I would welcome any views and advice on this subject. I don't know who "biffa" is, but his input and comments have been very sensible and helpful, and I would welcome his opinions on my earlier posts.

However, as the political question has been brought up, my view is that the Portugese Government may be being somewhat shortsighted. The structure of the new taxes could be construed as being "lets get the rich foreigner", which has no place in the new Europe. We will simply sell up and leave. Think about it. I own an offshore based property. I may think "OK, I will sell up". But no-one will buy in these circumstances. If everyone ends up feeling the same, the property market will collapse. The foreign investors will leave.

I am sure that this is not what the Portugese government intends, but we have seen this type of shortsighted thinking go horribly wrong before, even in the UK.

This is the bigger, long term, concern. Anyone else see it this way?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 10:37 am

yes i do indeed see your way...this in fact this is almost nationalisation by taxation,,......the government taxes until the property owner cant pay and then can seize the villa and sell it one of its pals at an "auction"

as for being short sighted, the history of taxation has been one of the key contributions in many serious cases of unrest..

eg the jews objected to paying taxes to the romans..rebellion and jerusalem was destroyed in 70 ce. the tea tax in the USA...revolution, the salt tax in indai, the poll tax, the petrol tax....yes if these governments had thought ahead they wouldnt have done..but they did.

do you think the portuguese will learn...perhaps after the property market has been destroyed, then it will register

martin · Post by **martin** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 10:51 am

as has been already mentioned , the portuguese put or adjusted taxes on 4 wheel drive vehicles....result...market destroyed...jobs lost....no sales and a result less revenue for the government.....did they change the law as a result, but of course not, it still stands and that is why no one can afford to buy land rovers or jeeps, which frankly with the state of roads here are vital for living in many rural places

Kidson · Post by **Kidson** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 11:27 am

As a matter of interest what are the penalties involved for owning and driving a 4 wheel vehicle???

Rampage · Post by **Rampage** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 12:34 pm

Am I right in thinking that the offshore ownership issue is not a Portuguese versus The Rest issue? I bought my villa from a Portuguese and it was already offshore company owned so there may be support from many of the nationals should lobbying of government eventually be required. Biffa - you would know more about this. In the meantime I have resisted transferring to Delaware (very expensive setup fee) and am maintaining a watching brief. I do believe the writing is on the wall for offshore ownership and that I shall eventually have to transfer ownership of the asset to my own name and disolve the company. Meantime I think Biffa's earlier advice is sound: don't panic.

biffa · Post by **biffa** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 2:20 pm

Please bear in mind that the 5% IMI on offshore held property is still only a proposal. Sure it will probably go through as which party will oppose it and the Government who have proposed it amongst many other changes has a majority.

I do think you should stay calm for now until further research shows the possible solutions which wil get posted on this site. I can assure you that those that deal with these matters are not sitting on their hands.

The revaluation will not be "backdated" and in fact there is a safeguard clause within the proposals that mean any increase will be spread over a period. Don't forget that these changes affect the whole property market, especially in terms of capital gains taxes, and not just offshore although the penalties for being "offshore" are greater

martin · Post by **martin** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 4:02 pm

biffa.

im sitting in the ejector seat...just say when i need to pull the lever.

biffa · Post by **biffa** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 4:36 pm

The ejection lever is easy to pull. I am trying to unravel the parachute!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 5:23 pm

WING COMMADER BIFFA.

MESSAGE RECEIVED...AWAITING ORDERS.

ROGER AND OUT.

FLT LT. MARTIN.

DO YOU DO GOLDEN PARACHUTES BY THE WAY?

Graham · Post by **Graham** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 5:51 pm

I think a golden parachute would drop about as quickly as property values if all this tax is unavoidable!

biffa · Post by **biffa** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 12:33 am

Flt Lt Martin

Golden parachute unavailable as yet.

Safety net on order. Living at some altitude as you do it may well come in useful!

martin · Post by **martin** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 12:48 am

in view of the fact that we will soon be all bankrupt, i have decided to set up a charity for those affected...members will be able to qualify as aslyum seekersand get a house in uk...

working title for charity is

Poor Offshore Taxpayers Society

or POTS for short..well you think of something better

would u buy now? · Post by **would u buy now?** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 12:52 am

Being a frequent visitor to Carvoeiro, I have been thinking of buying an apt for sometime but totally confused with all this buying through an offshore co. I had been told months ago that something was going to happen which might make it a bad thing.

All I want to do is buy an apt, to rent out to gain an income to help provide for my young children whose father has cancer and possibly live in at a future date. Reading all these posts has made me think would I be doing the right thing buying in Portugal now but prices have risen so much since 2 years ago and if they keep on rising will not be able to afford a 2 bed apt. Should I just keep the money in UK bank account?
Any advice would be much appreciated.

biffa · Post by **biffa** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 10:16 am

Diificult to advise the guest but from experience the net return from letting a 2 bed apartment after paying all the expenses and possibly a villa manager to care for it is minimal.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 5:14 pm

with reference to all the foregoing comments, its worth reading judy sharps comments in this weeks "Resident"

IMI

Ejection

parachutes

buying property

Would u buy now?