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Builders/Carpenetrs
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Peter Belinfante
Why don't you change the wires in the switches; maybe it works the other way! (down for off and up for on)digger wrote:We bought a brand new apartment recently, and all the light switches go down for on, up for off…..[the English way]…..this is unheard of in pt.
Did the sparky get it wrong or is this is the way forward….
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Guest
maybe he was an english sparky?
now I shouldn't really tell you this .....but i fitted low voltage downlighters in our kitchen last year and put new light switches on to match the decor (well because my wife told me to really) ,I've fitted them upside down and she hasn't said a word yet!
the wiring wouldn't be wrong just the switch is upside down -you can easily rectify - but do you need to? leave them as they are and confuse your friends!
All the switch does is carry the live only through a single pole switch - although you may see two different colour cables this is just live in - live out, hence the necessity for metal back boxes and metal switches to be properly earthed.
Then again I could be talking poo....I've never seen the back of a PT switch!
Life's a beech ( or an oak, or an ash....what wood you like it to be)
Chippy
now I shouldn't really tell you this .....but i fitted low voltage downlighters in our kitchen last year and put new light switches on to match the decor (well because my wife told me to really) ,I've fitted them upside down and she hasn't said a word yet!
the wiring wouldn't be wrong just the switch is upside down -you can easily rectify - but do you need to? leave them as they are and confuse your friends!
All the switch does is carry the live only through a single pole switch - although you may see two different colour cables this is just live in - live out, hence the necessity for metal back boxes and metal switches to be properly earthed.
Then again I could be talking poo....I've never seen the back of a PT switch!
Life's a beech ( or an oak, or an ash....what wood you like it to be)
Chippy
…oh Peter I wouldn’t want to change anything…..I’m happy with light switches that don’t confuse me even if it is at the expense of me failing to confuse my friends.
But I was wondering if this was some new European regulation…..what do the light switches do in Spijkenisse I wonder…..the English complain about these regulations [they want their beer served by the pint etc]….they’d be happy to win the war over the light switch……….
But I was wondering if this was some new European regulation…..what do the light switches do in Spijkenisse I wonder…..the English complain about these regulations [they want their beer served by the pint etc]….they’d be happy to win the war over the light switch……….
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Peter Belinfante
Funny one normally does not think about this, if the light is off I will just press the switch and it will (hopefully, if the bulb does not go) switch on - most of the switches in my house have a couterpart, ie a second switch that will do exactly the opposite of the first one - so the off position depends on which switch I used last....
30 year old portuguese house - on the single switches I have to push up to turn lights on.
Easy way of solving this, just install dimmer switches (click on, click off)
30 year old portuguese house - on the single switches I have to push up to turn lights on.
Easy way of solving this, just install dimmer switches (click on, click off)
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Chippy
If you really want to be flash ( a bit of a pun there) then why not fit proximity light switches?
These look like a cover plate (blank plate) in place of the light switch which you can either touch for on or off or will work with your hand placed within about 25mm of the plate - no switch to go up and down or in and out - dead flash.....you can also hide them behind a metal plate for protection in open areas.....or behind a ceramic tile.....just remember which tile.....these take a few minutes to install in place of your old light switch and you can even have a dimming version!
Uk versions are about £20 each though....so not exactly a cheap alternative....
wood if I could
Chippy
These look like a cover plate (blank plate) in place of the light switch which you can either touch for on or off or will work with your hand placed within about 25mm of the plate - no switch to go up and down or in and out - dead flash.....you can also hide them behind a metal plate for protection in open areas.....or behind a ceramic tile.....just remember which tile.....these take a few minutes to install in place of your old light switch and you can even have a dimming version!
Uk versions are about £20 each though....so not exactly a cheap alternative....
wood if I could
Chippy
Hello Chippy, perhaps you should write a DIY book as you seem quite a wordsmith and know one end of screw driver from the other.
We have a three phase supply to our villa. Nominally for the pool pump. Not done very smart though as nearly evrything else is off one phase. Perhaps the reason that people have their mains regularly tripping out is that they are set at 25 or 30 amps. The EDP (poer company) have an exponential price scale for the stadnign charge depending on the max supply. Also you pay that for each phase if you three.
As for working a as a multi skilled tradesman, you would not be short of work. For sure the rates wont be what you can earn in the UK, but good independant tradesmen can earn 120 euros/day. Whilst many of the locals are good, they generally only work about 5 or six hours a day, hence they only make a much.
There are a lot of "less than skilled" ex pat tradesmen who seem to make a living, so someone with real talent should do very well,
We have a three phase supply to our villa. Nominally for the pool pump. Not done very smart though as nearly evrything else is off one phase. Perhaps the reason that people have their mains regularly tripping out is that they are set at 25 or 30 amps. The EDP (poer company) have an exponential price scale for the stadnign charge depending on the max supply. Also you pay that for each phase if you three.
As for working a as a multi skilled tradesman, you would not be short of work. For sure the rates wont be what you can earn in the UK, but good independant tradesmen can earn 120 euros/day. Whilst many of the locals are good, they generally only work about 5 or six hours a day, hence they only make a much.
There are a lot of "less than skilled" ex pat tradesmen who seem to make a living, so someone with real talent should do very well,
Nearly there
Hi Bob,
Sounds like daylight robbery -
20-30 amp is too low for an average house these days (maybe before microwaves/dishwashers/washing machines/kettles etc) in winter months it is very easy to use that amount and more.....
and a whole phase just for a pool pump -what (or should that be watt) size pump is it!.....or is it so they can charge for the second phase.....(oh cynical me.....)
Possibly with a heating it might be needed, but it would be quite normal to run a sub-distribution board (off the household single phase) out to the swimming pool plant room with a 3 way board, say 20amp breaker for the pump (depends on size) and another 10amp for some garden lighting and a spare way for future use
This of course depends on the incoming supply being man enough to split -but very commonly done over here.
Ah well....if all there is to be unhappy about about is the state of the electrical supply then lifes not to bad eh?
On a happy note we shall be out next Saturday! wahayy!
just sorting out Villa - someone from this forum is checking to see if theirs will be available ( better not say who because they may suspect I'm going to take their electric cupboard apart when I get there!....lol.....well maybe just a peek)
.....never did hear anything back from the chap with his adobe wall......hope it all went ok for him
regards
Chippy
If your mitres do not fit......
Fill them up with glue and.......
Sounds like daylight robbery -
20-30 amp is too low for an average house these days (maybe before microwaves/dishwashers/washing machines/kettles etc) in winter months it is very easy to use that amount and more.....
and a whole phase just for a pool pump -what (or should that be watt) size pump is it!.....or is it so they can charge for the second phase.....(oh cynical me.....)
Possibly with a heating it might be needed, but it would be quite normal to run a sub-distribution board (off the household single phase) out to the swimming pool plant room with a 3 way board, say 20amp breaker for the pump (depends on size) and another 10amp for some garden lighting and a spare way for future use
This of course depends on the incoming supply being man enough to split -but very commonly done over here.
Ah well....if all there is to be unhappy about about is the state of the electrical supply then lifes not to bad eh?
On a happy note we shall be out next Saturday! wahayy!
just sorting out Villa - someone from this forum is checking to see if theirs will be available ( better not say who because they may suspect I'm going to take their electric cupboard apart when I get there!....lol.....well maybe just a peek)
.....never did hear anything back from the chap with his adobe wall......hope it all went ok for him
regards
Chippy
If your mitres do not fit......
Fill them up with glue and.......
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Guest
Question to Chippy.........or another electrical wizard........If I want 230 single phase (For a 1 KW Motor).......but only have Three phase supply....is it OK to just take it from one of the Star connection and Earth ..?? or do I have to balance the load.....?......I know this gives me sinle Phase 230 (ish) but my Electrical studies were almost 50 years ago and I cannot remember if its ok to just run off one phase and leave the other two to float .....??????
3 phase
Hi Guest,
Firstly - If you are unsure in any way you should ge a local sparky to deal with this, 3 phase can kill - and kill very quickly!
How is your 3 phase coming in? Do you have a board with the phases separate.
....or is it 3 phase in the sense of 415/450v supply ( 2phases) to a "3phase" piece of electrical kit (industrial kit) sometimes known as a 400v single phase (confused yet?)
From what I can deduce from the net:
Portugal uses the following colours for their ac phases
Blue = nuetral
Black = L1
Black/brown = L2
Brown = L3
Green/yellow = earth
so you should be able to take any single phase (+ nuetral and earth) via a breaker (10amp is plenty for 1Kw - about the same power as a hair dryer)
But if it it only a 1kw motor then can you not spur off your existing single phase supply? - or is that already overloaded?
Without seeing the board myself (with multitester in hand!) I am loathe to give advice,I should point out I am not a qualified electrician!
So take this advice with caution ( except the bit about using a local for 3 phase...I do recommend that!)
Sorry I couldn't be more help - I trust a local sparks is reading this and will be in touch with a bit of knowledge and a reasonable quote!
Regards
Chippy
Firstly - If you are unsure in any way you should ge a local sparky to deal with this, 3 phase can kill - and kill very quickly!
How is your 3 phase coming in? Do you have a board with the phases separate.
....or is it 3 phase in the sense of 415/450v supply ( 2phases) to a "3phase" piece of electrical kit (industrial kit) sometimes known as a 400v single phase (confused yet?)
From what I can deduce from the net:
Portugal uses the following colours for their ac phases
Blue = nuetral
Black = L1
Black/brown = L2
Brown = L3
Green/yellow = earth
so you should be able to take any single phase (+ nuetral and earth) via a breaker (10amp is plenty for 1Kw - about the same power as a hair dryer)
But if it it only a 1kw motor then can you not spur off your existing single phase supply? - or is that already overloaded?
Without seeing the board myself (with multitester in hand!) I am loathe to give advice,I should point out I am not a qualified electrician!
So take this advice with caution ( except the bit about using a local for 3 phase...I do recommend that!)
Sorry I couldn't be more help - I trust a local sparks is reading this and will be in touch with a bit of knowledge and a reasonable quote!
Regards
Chippy
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Guest
You are most helpful..and I think you should start your business here ..with back up Internet support.........you really will get a lot of business as long as your prices are not too much more than local tradesmen......and as the cost of living here is cheaper than UK....one can live a fairly simple life,with in my opinion the best food west of Hong Kong..the best weather (Forget the recent 45deg...I hope that was just a fluke (Talking of Multimeters !!) ....but one really has to be very tolerant of beaurocracy..cos it stinks here.
Ref my question......Yes I can connect it to a single phase line and probably will......I was just trying to use up the original wiring which was a Four wire supply to a three phase pump motor (Second emegency pump motor...yes I have mains water plus a back up Tank with a water pump PLUS another Back up water pump....(Three options).....it is this second pump that is never used ...and is three phase that has gone rusty and needed replacing.........SO....I purchased a new pump and then found out it was a single phase motor..Woops.......but its only 1 hp...and I think single phase is fine......so I have these three leads Brown /Black/ Blue and Green/Yellow........I dont have a Neutral ??.......I get 240 across any lead to earth (Green Yellow)..and of course 380 across any live lead to live lead.......So I was thinking can I connect this single phase motor and the old wiring that comes from a circuit board/Breaker....It works when I do it this way........but I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong by leaving two floating leads........Does that make sense.......but pls dont worry if it does not....I'm an electronic Engineer of yesteryear..so I wont kill myself.....but Electrical and electronic aint the same.......
Well Im off for a beer now...do think seriously about working down here....it is a headache with the beaurocracy..but ...its worth it.
Rgds
EX...Electronic man....I helped invent 'Pong'.....remember that...long time ago..(The TV game...not the bloody smell)
Ref my question......Yes I can connect it to a single phase line and probably will......I was just trying to use up the original wiring which was a Four wire supply to a three phase pump motor (Second emegency pump motor...yes I have mains water plus a back up Tank with a water pump PLUS another Back up water pump....(Three options).....it is this second pump that is never used ...and is three phase that has gone rusty and needed replacing.........SO....I purchased a new pump and then found out it was a single phase motor..Woops.......but its only 1 hp...and I think single phase is fine......so I have these three leads Brown /Black/ Blue and Green/Yellow........I dont have a Neutral ??.......I get 240 across any lead to earth (Green Yellow)..and of course 380 across any live lead to live lead.......So I was thinking can I connect this single phase motor and the old wiring that comes from a circuit board/Breaker....It works when I do it this way........but I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong by leaving two floating leads........Does that make sense.......but pls dont worry if it does not....I'm an electronic Engineer of yesteryear..so I wont kill myself.....but Electrical and electronic aint the same.......
Well Im off for a beer now...do think seriously about working down here....it is a headache with the beaurocracy..but ...its worth it.
Rgds
EX...Electronic man....I helped invent 'Pong'.....remember that...long time ago..(The TV game...not the bloody smell)
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Guest
pump motor
Ah ha......
"..so I have these three leads Brown /Black/ Blue and Green/Yellow........I dont have a Neutral ??.......I get 240 across any lead to earth (Green Yellow).."
Sounds like the 400v single phase ( 2phases of the 3 phase)
I take it that is your incoming supply - if so then the black cable and brown cable should be L1 and L3 (live 1 and live 3 phase) the blue nuetral and the green and yellow earth. If you traced the cable back to the board and disconnected and made safe so it cannot be reconnected EVER! one live cable ( say the brown L3) this would leave
Black (L1) = live
Blue = Nuetral
green/yellow = earth
The leftover brown cable can be cut back and terminated in a single connector block and taped over for safety (just in case...)
....and should work fine.
BUT.. (had to be one...)
Check the MCB rating is not to high - 10amp should be fine
Test the cables with a multimeter to ensure voltage ( 240v across live/nuetral - this will ensure blue isn't live by mistake)
Check the cable condition where you can - if it is old there might be cuts/faults etc
Test everything for earth bonding!!
You could of course use these cables to wire in a socket outlet next to the pump - this would enable the use of a single RCD device for protection, the sort you use for plugging in an electric garden mower etc and allow the use of a Martindale tester (or PT equiv) to reasure you you have the wires in the right places - then just plug in your pump when you are happy ( if you had a fault you haven't burnt the pump out - you've just popped the RCD prior to plugging in the pump)
Regards
Chippy
"..so I have these three leads Brown /Black/ Blue and Green/Yellow........I dont have a Neutral ??.......I get 240 across any lead to earth (Green Yellow).."
Sounds like the 400v single phase ( 2phases of the 3 phase)
I take it that is your incoming supply - if so then the black cable and brown cable should be L1 and L3 (live 1 and live 3 phase) the blue nuetral and the green and yellow earth. If you traced the cable back to the board and disconnected and made safe so it cannot be reconnected EVER! one live cable ( say the brown L3) this would leave
Black (L1) = live
Blue = Nuetral
green/yellow = earth
The leftover brown cable can be cut back and terminated in a single connector block and taped over for safety (just in case...)
....and should work fine.
BUT.. (had to be one...)
Check the MCB rating is not to high - 10amp should be fine
Test the cables with a multimeter to ensure voltage ( 240v across live/nuetral - this will ensure blue isn't live by mistake)
Check the cable condition where you can - if it is old there might be cuts/faults etc
Test everything for earth bonding!!
You could of course use these cables to wire in a socket outlet next to the pump - this would enable the use of a single RCD device for protection, the sort you use for plugging in an electric garden mower etc and allow the use of a Martindale tester (or PT equiv) to reasure you you have the wires in the right places - then just plug in your pump when you are happy ( if you had a fault you haven't burnt the pump out - you've just popped the RCD prior to plugging in the pump)
Regards
Chippy
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Guest