DEMOLITION OF VILLAS !!!

tbbr · Post by **tbbr** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:43 pm

On last nights Trevor Mcdonald programme there was a full program report of the action being taken by various local authorties in Spain to demolish properties built in " rural " locations without planning or building permits.

The ownrers have no recourse to law and the builders, estate agents etc have all " b*****ed * off with the money.
In fact they have to pay for the demolition costs.

It is thought that there are thousands of owners who could face this problem.

Historically owners paid the fine " after " the event and all was well but the scale of abuse having risen to such huge levels caused the authorities to finally react.

I have not heard much of this being a potential problem in Portugal although here say has it that when audited the authorities in Monchique and Silves have found some.

For those resident and with some local knowledge what do they think are the potential risks of similar events happening in the algarve.

Are we future buyers to be " safe " going to be limited to the major developments such as annnounced in recent weeks ??

IS the rural idyll just a pipe dream from now on ??

roy4eyes · Post by **roy4eyes** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:49 pm

The only problem of this kind in the area is on the Boa Vista urbanisacion, where a rogue builder has sold some recreational land to unsuspecting foreign buyers and the camara are repossessing land and demolishing some semi-finished developments.

Bruxinha · Post by **Bruxinha** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 2:04 pm

Be VERY VERY careful folks PLEASE...WHOEVER you deal with. Check, check and double check again. I know of some very nasty individuals, who operate around the very area Roy is speaking of. Oh so charming too but they have to live in houses with big high fences around and a few vicious dogs for good measure and walk around my town wearing baseball hats to try to disguise themselves...ask yourself why?????

If you don't speak Portuguese get someone independent, who does, to check out every piece of paper and go to the council to check yourself and PLEASE, if you are going to use legal advice, use someone well away from the area you are building in.

Not surprised about Monchique or Silves. I have possibly 4 illegal properties next to my house alone in Silves!

Beautiful place that the Algarve is, it is full of sharks just like the Costas in Spain. Sad but true!

roy4eyes · Post by **roy4eyes** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 3:24 pm

My previous mail was a wind-up for a forum member building just round the corner from us - and yes it caught him and yes it will cost me a large brandy next time he sees me

However I would second Bruxinha's remarks - builders do go bust, money does change hands, quality controls are your own responsiblity etc.

Our house fronted land specified for recreational use - 18 months later seven houses were built on it. Asking our solicitor, she simply said "then is then, now is now" - with the very strong implication of 'backhanders' playing a major role

pm · Post by pm » Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:15 pm

I saw part of that. Awful wasn't it. Mind you someone said that people left their brains in Alicante airport and the English guy (What was he, estate agent, solicitor?) said he had been telling people for 20 years not to buy stuff that didn't have planning permission and they took no notice.
Why will people do things in Spain/Portugal they wouldn't dream of doing in the UK?

(also I wonder if the mod who is currently deleting EVERY thing I type going to delete this? Probably. Perhaps we should have a list of messages that are acceptable?)

maddi · Post by **maddi** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:23 pm

No reason for them to delete it at all PM, totally on topic and not attacking or defensive for that matter - well all except that last sentence - perhaps that should go

Mads (loving your work darling)

Bruxinha · Post by **Bruxinha** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:03 pm

pm wrote: Why will people do things in Spain/Portugal they wouldn't dream of doing in the UK?

I think a lot of it comes down to not knowing the language and not doing enough research. They watch these programmes on TV saying how easy and wonderful it all is etc etc and they fall for it. People are then so trusting and put their affairs totally in someone else's hands because they are so desperate for their dream and often want to do it on the cheap rather than use interpreters etc. They forget that the best conmen & women are the most charming and convincing and get taken in by all their blurb. They also forget cultural differences in the way business may be conducted.

My Portuguese is not fantastic but I can at least go into the local council and request a planning file and documents and check everything for myself and friends. A friend of mine had a lawyer, who said he had put applications into the council for various things for her and when I went to check at the council several months later to ask what the delay was, I found he had done absolutely nothing. Don't put your life in other people's hands be they someone with a few initials after their name or not.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:40 pm

Fact....a great majority of properties here are not fully legal....buyers from UK are told this in many cases.by the vendors....and they still buy because it is very rare that all is Kosher...you take it or leave it.....I know many people that have build a brand new Villa and immediately extended or dug under another three bedrooms to let....so when sellin time comes...they cannot sell legally and the buyers are very happy to buy , because it is normal to live in aln illegal building.get a lotmore rent and in ten years sell it on....

Bruxinha · Post by **Bruxinha** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 9:29 pm

Don't make it right though GUEST does it? It shouldn't be NORMAL to buy and live in as you say an ILLEGAL building and it also is all so unneccesary. It is all just down to greed at the end of the day and some people have had their lives ruined by unscrupulous people in the Algarve. Is that right?

Until many more people here have the courage to complain this crap will continue.

nightrider · Post by **nightrider** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 11:19 pm

Anonymous wrote:Fact....a great majority of properties here are not fully legal....buyers from UK are told this in many cases.by the vendors....and they still buy because it is very rare that all is Kosher...you take it or leave it.....I know many people that have build a brand new Villa and immediately extended or dug under another three bedrooms to let....so when sellin time comes...they cannot sell legally and the buyers are very happy to buy , because it is normal to live in aln illegal building.get a lotmore rent and in ten years sell it on....

I am extremely sorry to have to say Guest that your living in a fools paradise and somewhat surprised that you appear not to be aware of fairly recent legislation in portugal such as the"Ficha Tecnica" as I believe you to be Portuguese! Any lawyer is fully aware of documents such as the Tax Documents i.e Cadernetas and a lawyer can be struck off as can be a registered Estate Agent for filing illegal documents and all of which of course a serious criminal offence. What some may have gotten away with a few years ago rest assured when selling property today will not apply.
If anyone has added additonal rooms and the like onto their property, than the correct thing to do is to instruct a reliable architect and apply for legalisation, yes you will more than likely receive a fine and it will normally take around 9 months, but at the end of the day you can sell your property with the correct documenation and no doubt well recoup the architect and fine monies.

You are running a real risk in attempting to sell your property in the knowledge that part of it is illegale and I would urge anyone not to now attempt this.

With regard the 10year usage rule, you are somewhat misguided.

Nightrider.