landlord's neglect keeps by business closed

[R.Wethereyet]

Joanne here are the details of the President of the Camara.

Dr. José Inácio Marques Eduardo
MUNICÍPIO DE LAGOA
Largo do Município
8401 851
Lagoa

However it may be worth contacting the press first, as they love to highlight the inefficiencies of public servants, and will contact the President for his comments.

Good luck

[biffa]

On an entirely unemotional and practical level, if you are without the necessary funds to fight what could be a lengthy legal battle, you are throwing good money after bad by keeping up the rental payments.

The Câmara would only take any action if the publc were endangered by falling masonry etc and without recourse to the means for a legal challenge to try to force the repairs (which is possible) the landlord will simply sit tight and receive the rent without doing anything.

It is a sad but true situation that to take legal action as a plaintif in Portugal is fraught with problems, delays and much expense not only in lawyers fees but also in Court disbursements. Most ordinary folk simply cannot afford to start an action.

[martin]

wise words from biffa...how true the saying "to start a legal case in portugal you need to be under 30 and in good health"

[alf1956]

somebody i know has had a legal case going on for 25 years !!! it is a different kind of case to the topic listed but it may give some idea of how the portuguese legal system works (very very slowly)!!!

[biffa]

Some times one has to give up and move on unless you have the resources and burning desire to fight in. What a sad world we occupy where the bad guys often "win"!

[tricky]

How awful for you Joanne, but to be honest, if anyone can give the best advice its Biffa

[joeysoap]

Are there no health inspectors who would enforce repairs on the premises ?

[loonytoon]

Re: Landlord's neglect keeps my business closed.
Thank you people for your time, you are very kind.
Answers to solutions.
I am between a rock and a hard place, as I cannot stop paying the rent as if no rent is received for three months, the Landlord can take the business back. The law seems to protect the unlawful and as usual leaves the persecuted unprotected.
I cannot turn the water off as the water infiltration is coming from rainfall leaking in from blocked escape holes and broken roof terraces, damaged pipes to take away rainwater then allows seepage through the side of the building with loss of cement and concrete, allow water through broken bricks. I have to be careful what I say here as one has to work out accident v design, and lack of repairs, (none since I moved in 26 years ago) deterioration and cancer rot are difficult and expensive to combat, especially when I cannot get into the above rooms to stop the water infiltration, because the apartment (derelict and empty) belongs to the landlord.
I agree, emails to the Camara have produced nothing, and a solicitor has told me it will cost so much money and take many years, that the advice is to forget it.
Everyone agrees the law is on my side and that the landlord's actions, and lack of action are illegal, but one day I fear the upstairs will crumble into the downstairs, and no insurance on earth will pay out for neglect. The Camara do not seem to know of the new laws demanding landlord responsibility and I am telling them, (by phone) and anyone interested to Google Portuguese Civil law and also the Urban Tenancy Regime for Commercial and Industrial Purposes or just Google NRAU. The law is clear, but try implementing it.
Joanne

what about if you only paid 1 month out of 3? that way you would avoid the 3 month point where they can reclaim the business but they would lose 2 months rent per quarter and would have to initiate proceedings against you to reclaim it (obviously keep the money handy to repay them in case they actually repair the place so you can start using it)

[roy4eyes]

Biffa is correct in his advice.
When I set up practice here I asked some of my Portuguese colleagues about Profesional Indemnity Insurance, thinking it may have been cheaper than my U.K.policy, and I was told not to bother "because in the medical profession we all stick together and in any case it would take 10 years for a case to go through the courts."
Needless to say I have continued my expensive U.K. policy both to give reassurance to my patients and I have doubts that the Portuguese practitioners would back up a foreigner?
It would be interesting to know if any forumers, or their friends, have had any unsatisfactory medical treatment and what happened if they tried to claim compensation.

[James Faro]

The course of action here really depends on what is at stake.

If the income received was a bare pittance ,then better, although reluctantly, just pay no rent, and walk away. That may be hard to do when Joanne was not at fault and stuck to the law more rigid than a tube of Super Glue.

HOWEVER, If Joanne was making a good income from the business and that has been harmed by the appalling negligence of the landlord whom has miserably failed in her duties then she should NOT just "call it a day" and walk away as she has done nothing wrong. The law is clearly on the side of Joanne.

Commencing a legal action is expensive but let the landlord do it- but she won't as it will open a can of bloody big worms due to her illegal actions.

Joanne should get the estimates done and deduct the rent, if the work is carried out. The landlord can hardly commence an action based on:

1. Loss of rent when she would have to spend the income she would have fully received on repairs in the first place. There is no loss incurred.
2. Joanne has suffered economic loss; a loss to her livelihood.
3. Commencing a legal action on Joanne, caused by the illegal conduct of the landlord by breach of contract? I think not!

May be best to write to the landlord informing her of the intended proposed course of action. Who knows, the 'threat' of less rent may spurn the landlord to actually do something to the repairs. Portuguese is a difficult language to master, but money is fluent in every language!

The landlord may be in financial difficulty or perhaps wants to sell the property so is putting a gun to the head of Joanne by refusing to do the repairs. Either the former or the latter, the landlord sbould sell the property and Joanne may end up with a better landlord than the Lame Lucy currently she has to endure.

Get another letter out Joanne(explaining your intention about estimates and deduction of rent) to the landlord in both English and Portuguese and make sure that it is signed for so that the landlord has received it. All it will cost you is just the postage; If the landlord has a fax machine then deliver it that way too, as well, and post copies of the letters to any interested parties. Also give the landlord a 21 day right of reply. If she fails to respond then you have the green light to proceed with your plans.

Often an indication of what you intend to do than actually doing it can bring-in very effective results.

[Joanne53]

To the Forum.
I think you are all brilliant, and have come up with some good ideas, yes, even including walking away, as I have many times considered this measure, but I am BRITISH, and don't usually give up until I am lay on the floor bleeding to death, and even then........., well, never day die.
You have all been so supportive and have made a difference to my will to carry on.
I am considering many of the options and will start making a list. I think the one paying one month in three is a good idea, as I would like to provoke her into threatening me with court action, I could play this game indefinitely, whilst using the money saved (even if temporarily) to start repairs.
MY PLANS?
I intend to start repairs in the next few weeks, stop letting sleeping dogs lie, and poke them with a sharp stick. Having had a survey done, I now know what I need to do to get things good enough (Health & Safety wise) to get the place open.
My health is not brilliant, but I have a strong will, that should keep me going. I then intend to put the business up for offer on an 'Exploration Contract' which I have done before, successfully. Spring now beckons, and I am sure many people would like the chance to run their own business for 5years. The sub rent from this will give me the finances to take the landlady to court.
Please keep your interest, your comments, and your support coming in, maybe other people are learning from reading this.
If you are, or you are having similar problems, please get in touch, we could go to the newspapers with this.
Bless you all, and a Happy New Year, Joanne.

[R.Wethereyet]

That's good to hear Joanne, keep smiling and don't let the bar stewards grind you down.

[pat anderson]

Joanne Did anything ever become of the possibility of taking the change in the trespasse law to the European court ? it seems the landlord is taking advantage of this despicable government decision and yet another reason it should be followed up on a EU basis .

[alf1956]

well i would like to you the best of luck with it all !!!!

[sam]

You could try taking a change of attack. Try pointing out to the landlord that the water damage is now so severe that the strength of the walls/ceiling are now compromised and that he could find his flat collapsing into your premises. Clearly as he is aware of the situation, and has failed to maintain the property any building insurance that he has would be invalidated.