Safety Specialist view of new square versus Traffic

[safety joe]

Can some please pass on to the local council leaders the following,who it must be said have not got a clue about designing a road system so close to the beach before someone/child gets killed.
I am constantly amazed at the amount of traffic passing through and around the circular road close to the beach how a person/child to date has not been killed

Did anyone in the council evaluate pedestrian interface when designing this death trap, I noticed last week 3 vehicles parked on the bend and visitors having to weave between them.. close call for them also major potential is now the market stalls and sellers are to close to the road, a child will sooner or later wander some 2 meters into the road..

When designing access for vehicles and pedestrians it is either a thoroughfare for vehicles or a pedestrian walkway...I am sorry in the health and safety terms you cannot have both, but we have?? Look at how many steel protection posts are already bent through interface with a vehicle.. A thought for the council each one bent is how lucky visitors / locals have been... last week I counted 6.. 6 lives? Next week I will count again.

We have a saying in Health and Safety.. Plan to succeed do not plan to fail..

[floyd]

Can some please pass on to the local council leaders the following,who it must be said have not got a clue about designing a road system so close to the beach before someone/child gets killed.
I am constantly amazed at the amount of traffic passing through and around the circular road close to the beach how a person/child to date has not been killed

Did anyone in the council evaluate pedestrian interface when designing this death trap, I noticed last week 3 vehicles parked on the bend and visitors having to weave between them.. close call for them also major potential is now the market stalls and sellers are to close to the road, a child will sooner or later wander some 2 meters into the road..

When designing access for vehicles and pedestrians it is either a thoroughfare for vehicles or a pedestrian walkway...I am sorry in the health and safety terms you cannot have both, but we have?? Look at how many steel protection posts are already bent through interface with a vehicle.. A thought for the council each one bent is how lucky visitors / locals have been... last week I counted 6.. 6 lives? Next week I will count again.

We have a saying in Health and Safety.. Plan to succeed do not plan to fail..

Several local councils are considering doing away with pavements and allowing traffic and pedestrians to intermix. The theory is that without a clear road way which the motorist considers his by right he will slow to a reasonable speed.
I think the design of the square is good. In the past haphazard parking made walking through very difficult. The "hairpin" in the square slows traffic right down and there is room for all.

[pete-flint]

Floyd, I agree with your comments regarding drivers having to be more aware if there is no pavement. What I noticed was the number of cars, obviously visitors, taking a wrong turn when passing across in front of the bottle shop and turning right !! They did get a good shout from people who happened to be in the area at the time, but what would happen if there was no body about, The same with turning right by the icecream shop to go up the hill
As I said, mostly visitors. There should be more prominent sign-age to highlight the situation.

[laserblazer]

turning right by the icecream shop to go up the hill

I think that happened a few times when the direction was changed.

[EMM]

Second Negative posting from " Safety Joe ". What next the slippery state of the calcadas, lack of protection from the tsunami that could occur as it did in the 18th century, danger from being attacked by sea gulls.
I never Knew CVO was such a dangerous place.

[safety joe]

Emm,

Just an observation.... One can either agree or disagree but thats my job however I did not mean it to sound as a negative more of a watch this space and lets hope the council take note..

[EMM]

Safety you should take a few minutes ( if not hours ) to read the various postings on this subject.

The general consensus that the new square is a great improvement on what went before. The majority of those against it do so on vested interest terms as they are affected by the reduction in parking for their customers.

The change we would like to see is the square made traffic free at night in the summer.

As for idiotic drivers who cannot read road signs or try to go the wrong way round a one way system then they deserve all they get. Be it the GNR or as we have seen an icecream thrown on to their windscreen by a pedestrian who had to quickly get out of their way.
Drivers should alway take second place a long way behind the needs and rights of pedestrians.

[Michael Crane]

Second Negative posting from " Safety Joe ". What next the slippery state of the calcadas, lack of protection from the tsunami that could occur as it did in the 18th century, danger from being attacked by sea gulls.
I never Knew CVO was such a dangerous place.

[Michael Crane]

Slightly off topic: Did anyone watch Top Gear on Sunday (repeated Tuesday if you missed it).? The Three Amigos were pitched against a bunch of professional house demolition experts as each team demolished a block of houses. The pros, decked out in all the safety gear you could name, were each handed a thick wad of 'regulations' from the H&SE while Gazza and mates, decked out in their day clothes and ordinary shoes, just got stuck in.

After the TG Team had a whale of a time knocking down the houses with some very formidable machines, they stood back and admired their work as Clarkson remarked, "We didn't have the safety equipment of the other lot - and yet none of us died!" . . . or words to that effect.

The H&SE have all but strangled the building industry in the UK, and now safety joe is importing its nonsense into the Algarve.

[R.Wethereyet]

The square, whilst not ideal, is far better than its predecessor, which was supposed to be an accident waiting to happen, and was an eyesore. Having said that I don't remember any fatalities, why, because pedestrians recognised that it was a road system and took due care. The new system which looks better, is badly designed in terms of the differing coloured surfaces, which to many pedestrians not only appears to be an extension of the crossing outside Smilers, but is also the most direct route to the beach area. Whilst there are pavements in front of the Sol Hotel, and also outside Sully's, the one thing lacking is a clearly defined crossing area from the centre of the square onto the patio area in front of the beach, and so because of this pedestrians walk obliviously in front of car drivers, who by the laws of the Portuguese Highway Code, have the right of way.

As a resident, I can sympathise with both drivers and pedestrians. However, in all the countries I have lived, roads are for cars and pavements are for pedestrians, and the only time pedestrians should be walking on a road is via a marked zebra crossing. The square has a total of 4 of these, which enables all pedestrians to get safe access from all routes onto and off the square, as well as access to the beach area.

Unfortunately at this time of year visitors, whether driving or walking, leave their brains at home, and have no regard for safety, or for road signs, road markings or footpaths. Both are guilty.

The current system however, is here to stay, and with no funds in the coffers to make any changes, we are stuck with it. Safety is a 'two way street', excuse the pun, and neither should be pointing the accusing finger at pedestrian or driver, but to look at oneself, and think, do I take necessary care when walking or driving in a busy area.

[floyd]

M C, I would take issue with you on the subject of building sites. We all recall when mining was the most dangerous (On shore) occupation. When mining closed, building took over the mantle of death They have put their house in order so now it is farmers who have the pride of place in the killing fields. Whether wearing a hi vis jacket, hard hat and steel toe caps will stop our agricultural bretheren from throwing themselves into the front of a combine harvester remains to be seen as I can't see Elf and Safety influencing most of the farmers I know!

[joeysoap]

Floyd, I agree with your comments regarding drivers having to be more aware if there is no pavement. What I noticed was the number of cars, obviously visitors, taking a wrong turn when passing across in front of the bottle shop and turning right !! They did get a good shout from people who happened to be in the area at the time, but what would happen if there was no body about, The same with turning right by the icecream shop to go up the hill
As I said, mostly visitors. There should be more prominent sign-age to highlight the situation.

I never had the pleasure of seeing the 'old' system. my first visit to cvo was in oct '09 so the 'new' system was just in place by all accounts. I though then and still do that it's very workable. the only area that puzzles me is this 'road' in front of the bottle shop. what purpose does it serve? if you go across the front of it you are now in front of the Sol all of 5 seconds sooner and if you are coming from restaurant hill why would you want to go across you can't go up past Sullys, you can surely only turn around and go back where you came from or am missing something?

[EMM]

Isn't the cut through past the off lisence is ONE WAY ONLY !!

[e-richard]

.. the only area that puzzles me is this 'road' in front of the bottle shop. what purpose does it serve? if you go across the front of it you are now in front of the Sol all of 5 seconds sooner and if you are coming from restaurant hill why would you want to go across you can't go up past Sullys, you can surely only turn around and go back where you came from or am missing something?

Its for those people who come down Restaurant hill to the square, take a look at the square and want to go straight back up the hill

Seriously tho, I wonder if it was designed for Taxis from the rank to take fares UP Restaurant hill and beyond - instead of doing a U turn from the taxi rank ?

[blue]

Another problem is that a lot of drivers (mostly Portuguese) coming down restuarant hill, whether going straight on over the cut or right into the out road, seem to now think that they have right of way & just carry on round (or across) without any hesitation or slowing in front of any cars coming around the round-about (attractive central seating system). They didn't have right of way before do they now?
Can you imagine what safety Joe would have made of the headstones we had before?