buyers wanted (over the border)

[martin]

yes UK buyers wanted over the border by spanish government, but would you trust the paperwork on any spanish property you bought??

see here
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... eturn.html

[superbocker]

No !

[sam]

Wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. Unless the government starts to support & help those in the legal messes and who have lost their homes/land then who is going to buy the thousands of surplus new properties, let alone resales. Whilst the economic climate is responsible for some of the problems, I suspect that most are caused by the actions/inactions of the government and local councils. If they want sales they need to act to regain confidence, not just hollow promises.

[pat anderson]

Having lived in the Algarve for 3.5 years and just recently moved to Spain because of the immoral law change on Portuguese lifetime leases which have left a lot of people thousands of euro's out of pocket and there are still a lot of people unaware that when they go to sell these properties they won't be worth the paper they are written on, because very little has been allowed to be published about it. I thank God I got out of Portugal when I did.

Spain on the otherhand is cheaper all round , friendlier and above all neither the locals or the Goverment try and rip you off, everything is transparent now and all the illegal acting construction companies and mayors are getting what they deserve. Buy an old property , deal through a reputable agent using a qualified lawyer and you are laughing all the way to bargain and a much better quality of life.

I could give you a long list of how we were ripped off in Portugal by the goverment, lawyers, banks , expats and locals. Anybody who says otherwise are wearing rose tinted glasses or don't want the truth out so as not to devalue their property .

[mac]

Pat - what's this lifetime lease you've mentioned? I wonder if it would apply to us. We own a house but we don't live in it permanently - we only use it as for holidays a few times during the year. We were hoping that we'd be able to spend a bit more time when we retire in a few years.

[sam]

Pat - Is it the same as lifetime leases in the UK? If so, you would be on dodgy ground here too. As I understand it, in the UK:-
Lifetime leases should have been captured under reversion regulation and concerns were raised about their exclusion at the time.
The main concern has to be that clients who look at lifetime leases may not be comparing them with other options to evaluate their suitability.
Some firms are expanding into the lifetime lease market as they see this unregulated gap develop. So clients need to tread carefully and weigh up all the options.
These schemes are not designed for investment, but a way to help people move and release some capital. The property will eventually revert to the firm on death, so there are usually better options.
Not sure what you are talking about in relation to Portugal - perhaps you can explain so others can be aware of any pitfalls.
As regards being ripped off in Portugal - we had a problem with a firm of advogados, everything was going well with our portuguese advogado until a british solicitor in the firm got involved, we changed advogados to a Portuguese firm and everything went well and we still use them 14 years later. The other was a management agent who we paid for services/utilities and which she did not pass on and which she has still not refunded . We then had to pay them again and fines for non-payment and reconnection - well documented in the Warning at the top of this section of the forum. As both of these were british you cannot blame the Portuguese.
I am sorry if you feel that you have been ripped off - but it is certainly not my experience in Portugal.

[James Faro]

For years and years the various Spanish governments ignored or did little to help those British and indeed other Europeans who lost all their live savings in dubious land developments that the local authorities insisted on pulling down. Now that they have a bitter recession and 700,000 empty homes they want the British to come back to boost their economy? They got too greedy and ripped off many people. You only miss a good thing when it has gone and many had working Brits have pulled out of Spain. There were high profile land grab cases in Spain on national British tv programmes in the 1990s and still now in 2011 it is going on. It is too late to bolt the door of the stable when the horse has got out.

I fear Portugal is going the same way, if not in land deals but assuming that the income from tourists will be guaranteed. That proposed new toll road will affect many tourists whom will not go to the Algarve or use will use instead those dangerous side roads. It will take a load of road fatalities or a hampering in the tourist numbers to make them realize what an error they made.

You never bite the hands that feed you and in Spain's case they decapitated the hands, arms and pockets of British people.Regret to say it; but I can't feel sorry for Spain,

[pat anderson]

Sam to try and simplify the law bought in by the Portuguese government in 2006 to change Life long trespassees to no longer be for life after being sold.

ie we were going to buy a bar in 2009 from a British guy he bought the lease for 80,000 there was a minimal rent and it was as it said on the bottle, his for life. At the time of him buying ( prior to the law change ) the law insisted upon selling he informed the owner to give them the chance to buy it back themselves, at the rate he could sell it for to the third party, if they declined he could sell it on for life. As the bar needed a lot of work and wasn't doing that well he agreed to sell to us for 40,000. Everything seemed to be going well, until 2 hours prior to completion when our Portuguese lawyer explained that the new law had been brought in and now if we bought not only could the owners of the property hiked up the rent but they could inform us that in 5 years time they would be taking the property back free of charge. 40,000 for only 5 years and then not have anything ????

It was maddening that our lawyer still charge us for all the work, when he could have just explained this in the first place and we wouldn't have started proceedings, bought the money over from the UK etc . The one I really feel sorry for was the other guy I think in the end he sold on the lease for a miserable 10,000. He lost 70,000 in 4 years. He had no idea of this law change and I fear many others have bars , shops etc on this type of trespasse and don't realise that it isn't worth anyway near what they believe it to be.

That is it in a nutshell - you can see more info here

http://www.azul-properties.com/algarve- ... .asp?ID=45

[sam]

Hi Pat - Thanks for explaining - a good warning to others who may be considering this route. I am sorry you got caught like this, and suffered the consequences.
However, looking at the other side, I have heard concerns in the past about landlords in portugal that have been stuck with tenants for life who pay a pittance of a rent, and the introduction of this law would seem to address this problem. However, there seem to be two problems a) it is applied to existing contracts, thus in commercial property devaluing the lease, and b) the law may not have been well publicised, which happened with holiday rental licences where camaras did not seem to know about it when it came into force.

[EMM]

There was a lot of publicity about this at the time ( Algarve Resident ) and complaints from Expat bar owners.
But I do not think that this is one of the reasons why so many " brit bars " fail. lack of a business background and a fondness for the " social " benefits of running a bar seem to be the main reasons

[pat anderson]

EMM - I think you have missed the point I am not talking the non success of Brit bars I am talking about the how there are unfair tactics on Property law of the Portuguese government. This is not necessarily aimed at the Brits but affects thousands of people in the future.

Many people have put a lot of money and time into renovating and building them up to be successful businesses and they now stand no chance of selling at a fair price to reflect this.

[EMM]

If you buy a bar or restaraunt hoping to sell it for a profit in a few years then you are definetly in the wrong business as 99% of bank managers would tell you.
We have only heard one side of the arguement, why was the law changed ??

[pat anderson]

I didn't say profit I said a fair price. Nobody is going to pay the same for a 5 year lease when it, pre law change ,would have been a lifetime lease.

Ask the Portuguese government why the law has changed to give money back to the non deserving rich property owners who years ago sold it on a lifetime lease for a good deal of money and can now get it back for nothing - I have no idea

[martin]

and in todays Mail it says....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/articl ... -sour.html

[sam]

and in todays Mail it says....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/articl ... -sour.html

One of the headlines states that a couple lost 40,000euros, this is rather misleading as due to the change in exchange rate they probably made about £30,000 profit. I see only the resale value was quoted in £s.