after having destroyed the offshore industry here in portugal...it makes somewhat alarming reading in todays "resident" to see that our local beaucrats have now started raids against property rental agencies enforcing a law that many seem never to have heard about.!! it seems architects plans have to be submitted detailing the rental property so that a licence can be obtained (whats new!)..those who dont ..guess what ?... yup... YOU WILL BE FINED!!!

I really wish that someone would yell in the ear of these beaucrats that there is only ONE industry here in the Algarve..ie tourism...destroy it and there is nothing left for anyone to bother about investing in

There is a certain logic in ensuring that rental properties meet safety standards.
I still remember the deaths from carbon monoxide poisoning in the seventies from badly installed or poorly maintained gas water heaters.

There is also the question of pool safety etc , NO OWNER is safe from being held personally responsible if accidents happen and can be proved to be due to negligence on the owners part and how many have the required liability insurance ??

The onus in a way should fall to the rental company to check before taking any property on its books that all the required standards are met.

We have used Owner rental properties in the states and all have to have the required local certification.
However how this can be done in a reasonable and logical way in the Algarve is the problem and a real problem at that.

well unfortunately such is the stupidity and impossibility of obtaining these (and others) licences that in the end no one bothers....in principal there is nothing wrong with a rental house acheiving a certain standard...but as this is Portugal no one can tell you what it is for sure or how many years to get a licence will take...the truth is that as the resident comments.. its just another form of raising quick taxes by fines (or more like legalised robbery)...like the case a few years ago when albufeira camara decided overnight to tax all stickers in windows (delta coffee ..coca cola etc)...no one had been told or asked...straight away all the rest and bar owners took off every form of sticker from their shop windows...now no one even bothers ..but it caused a big ding dong at the time

just reading the legal opinion of the law in the resident ..it seems that cleaning must be done by skillled personal..no doubt all camaras have set up courses to teach this...also it seems a reception area or office must be exist to welcome all vistors...well of course to add this feature to any property will require another construction licence...and so on and on and on..

Why on earth do you still live here - all you ever do is endlessly complain about the place

actually I never made up the headline on todays resident or if you check the quotes from tourism advisors you may realise that not everyone is so contented with portugal as you may be

as for staying here....elderly relative who has to be looked after..ok!

To coin a phrase "Lets get back to basics" shall we.
An Alvara Licence, is a document which anyone can obtain without any actual building qualifications. The granting of the Alvara and the catagory of what the builder can build depends on what actual type of machinery that he owns. The builder CANNOT EMPLOY OTHERS unless he is a Limited (LDA) registered company with the appropriate insurance/liability cover. But more often than not as I have stated before a builder picks up unqualified labour in unmarked mini buses from a local (word gets around) pick up point for such labour and pays such labour cash in hand. Some labour after having been promised payment.... never actually receiving it and of course cannot make any complaint to the authorities. Likewise if a would be purchaser is foolish enough to pay the builder cash.
An Architect and an Engineer are responsible for the building works and therefore, would be perfectly aware of my above comments. Ask yourself, is it lightly that a builder on his own, can build say a 3 bed villa and pool.....yes possible......but on the law of averages..how long would such work take from start to finish.
One example would be that we are aware of one individual who has no knowledge or has even ever actually worked on a building site..... but conducts himself as set out above and I have no doubt introduced by others as a qualified builder/constructor...and to mainly English clients. Said individual a while ago built a villa (again as set out above) in the Silves area, within a few months of its construction the purchasers found their brand new villa flooding with water and other serious defects.... As I understand it the purchasers on getting nowhere with the builder finally, took the matter forward to a tribunal hearing. As the date drew near for said hearing, the builder through his lawyer purchased the villa back, rather of course than all the above history becoming public knowledge and therefore, no doubt a lot of serious consequences would then have followed for the self alleged builder. Said villa it is noted was put back on the market and has now been up for sale for a considerable time....and I am aware that this property is really being pushed by said agent to any would be purchaser together with being advertised as brand new ....So folks what's all this discussion on safety....what safety...there's no NHBRC, Master Builders Federation, City and Guilds or even the good old British Aprenticeship here in the Algarve/Portugal.
No we are not complaining about living in the Algarve, why should we...I mean to say "our safety" is protected ...we are European Citizens are we not

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On re-reading my above post this morning, it first gives the impression that it is not relevant to the actual original post on "safety checks prior to letting". However, imho it most definately does....in that prior to anyone letting and carrying out safety checks say on gas installations and the like....my above post is refering to how safe the original structure is etc .....and whilst responsible letting agents will no doubt check such things as gas mentioned above, they are not Structual and the like engineers. Therefore, as is often the case out here, any such accident will be down to the owner. I would strongly urge you to check prior to letting on such matters with your insurance company and don't forget they will want to be advised if you are letting your property and also if you have a mortgage...the lender.
Nightrider

Sorry to sidetrack a little, but as someone mentioned that Martin "complains a lot" I thought I would write about that.

I think wherever we live in the world there will be things we don't like and want to complain about. This forum is a good medium for venting off, or asking for guidance. I don't accept the argument that "foreigners" shouldn't complain about their "host" country. To me Portugal isn't a "host" and I am not really a "foreigner". It is a country in the EU, where other EU citizens have a right to reside and be listened to, especially if they are here helping and contributing to the country.

Some people like Portugal better than other countries and some don't. I have lived in worse places and I've lived in better. Still haven't found my "place" yet...maybe I will, maybe I won't. I can't understand the psyche in Portugal and I never will but then I can't understand a lot of people's psyches. I am sure they can't understand mine either.

It has to be said, that some people seem to live here with blinkers on. I have often spoken to people about various economic and political issues and they have absolutely no interest in those aspects of Portugal. They prefer to sit inside watching English satellite TV or reading an English newspaper, play a round of golf and think all is well outside. That is their prerogative. I don't enjoy living like that and that isn't why I go to other countries. I like to get involved in local and national issues and to chat to Portuguese people and find out what is going on in their worlds. I like to take action where I feel necessary on their behalf, as well as my own and for my friends and family.

At least Martin, does do things for his local community in Silves e.g. voluntarily gives up his time to help with the dog charity events and has recently admitted to campaigning to the EU over a local issue and got results. I don't have time for people who moan but don't DO anything. I have a list of letters pending to write and I hope in the long-term they will help Portugal and all European citizens that come to reside or work here. I "positively" take action about what I feel isn't right and unjust, at the same time trying to enjoy the positive aspects of my life, whether in Portugal, UK, Spain, Italy or wherever.

I find your posts informative and sometimes very funny too, Martin and I can understand your frustrations. I think this forum is big enough to take all our views and different approaches to being in Portugal.

Thanks for that Bruxy, this has cropped up before and I really do believe that forums like this should present on sides of an argument and certainly not eulogise discriminately. You alongside Martin take the trouble to keep it real and I and many others thank you for that.

On another forum yesterday there was a series of posts about how many make their 'move to the sun' totally blinkered, they have the glossy brochures, the happy holiday memories and a very unrealistic view of what life will be like - realtors seldom draw their attention to the pitfalls (in any country!). Levels of crime (minimised by lack of detection or interest and inaccurately recorded), beaurocracy and corrupt officials being the biggest areas of concern

And websites tend to be promoting the destination and discussion around the down sides is not encouraged.

Now if I could just find the thread again I would post a link - I am searching everywhere I might have been on the net yesterday - blinking heck!

Maddi