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Estate agents, lawyers (split topic)
Hi Newbie. Browsing and saw your posting. I can't help you regarding Rascal's Bar. I'll leave the mods to answer you on that one. Have to say it isn't my scene at all. 
Regarding your real estate query. I sent Imoppi 2 e-mails, the first on October 29th but never got a reply. Not a surprise in Portugal. I rarely get replies to e-mails and when I do it normally takes about 2 or 3 months for anyone to answer.
I telephoned them and they said that the AMI Nº number doesn't exist and if I want to make a complaint I had to write them a letter. I checked the web site that the real estate were advertising their properties on and it doesn't seem to work any more. I wonder, therefore, if Imoppi have in fact done something, as I know a while ago they were doing a countrywide investigation of unregistered real estate agents.
Any other help needed just e-mail me at bruxy@carvoeiro.com. Good luck.
Regarding your real estate query. I sent Imoppi 2 e-mails, the first on October 29th but never got a reply. Not a surprise in Portugal. I rarely get replies to e-mails and when I do it normally takes about 2 or 3 months for anyone to answer.
I telephoned them and they said that the AMI Nº number doesn't exist and if I want to make a complaint I had to write them a letter. I checked the web site that the real estate were advertising their properties on and it doesn't seem to work any more. I wonder, therefore, if Imoppi have in fact done something, as I know a while ago they were doing a countrywide investigation of unregistered real estate agents.Any other help needed just e-mail me at bruxy@carvoeiro.com. Good luck.
Last edited by Bruxinha on Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Whilst the web site www.algarvepropertyco.com doesn't seem to work now, out of interest Newbie, the e-mail address that was orignally on that web site i.e. sales@algarvepropertyco.com is listed on the link below for selling a car. The person named is "Luigi"...interesting, as that is the Italian version of Luís and then I noticed at the bottom the name Luís and a mobilre number. One of the guys in the real estate was Luís.
http://www.autoweb24.com/add/adDetail.a ... &ad_id=324
You really have to check stuff out here I'm afraid. Whilst I was looking for that a while ago, I found 2 or 3 dodgy UK based companies selling real estate in the Algarve.
http://www.autoweb24.com/add/adDetail.a ... &ad_id=324
You really have to check stuff out here I'm afraid. Whilst I was looking for that a while ago, I found 2 or 3 dodgy UK based companies selling real estate in the Algarve.
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Newbie
No problem. It only takes a minute to do that stuff on the net or by a quick phone call. Shame but there you go. Why should the legitimate agents go to all that trouble to take the exams, pay for insurance etc. if Imoppi don't do something about those that don't. Unfortunately though, it now seems that a lot of people are setting up real estate companies in the UK to sell property here. They will not be regulated by Imoppi. Imoppi are currently looking into this, as if a real estate company is involved in a sale of a property they MUST now be listed in the deed and they are concerned about the situation.
Even a reg no is no insurance.
I know of at least one where the individuals who own the companies and sell property are not qualified in any way.
How they aquired their reg number I leave to those who know more about these things.
But never forget an agent is not there for the benefit of the buyer , they get paid by the seller of the property.
How they sell is not important , JUST thet they sell.
Caveat emptor.
I know of at least one where the individuals who own the companies and sell property are not qualified in any way.
How they aquired their reg number I leave to those who know more about these things.
But never forget an agent is not there for the benefit of the buyer , they get paid by the seller of the property.
How they sell is not important , JUST thet they sell.
Caveat emptor.
Agreed, unfortunately.tbbr wrote:Even a reg no is no insurance.
Probably via a bit of "cunha"tbbr wrote:I know of at least one where the individuals who own the companies and sell property are not qualified in any way.
How they aquired their reg number I leave to those who know more about these things.
I don't expect Imoppi are immune from that like every institution in Portugal.Yep, real estate people are in it for themselves, no one else, buyer or seller.tbbr wrote:But never forget an agent is not there for the benefit of the buyer , they get paid by the seller of the property.
Well not important to them, BUT very important to the buyer.tbbr wrote:How they sell is not important , JUST thet they sell.
Definitely, but how many people do the amount of checks they should. Most are like lambs to the slaughter.tbbr wrote:Caveat emptor.
If there is no regulation in this area , then they might as well let any cowboy (sorry "mate" from Texas) from Portugal or the UK sell property. The problem currently, is the huge amounts of revenue Portugal is losing through dodgy selling and buying and building. I read it almost daily in Portuguese national newspapers. Shame eh?
People are obviously setting up UK based companies, in order to avoid having to register in Portugal and avoid paying various taxes. No doubt a fair bit of money laundering is going on as well.Best way to buy a property. Find someone selling, talk to them direct,agree a price, check all the documents yourself and do all the paperwork yourself. Unfortunately, most foreigners won't do that and so take a big risk. I don't want any third party doing anything on my behalf nowadays.
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nightrider
No...I am ABSOLUETLY fed up to the teeth with this stupid saying...Buyer be Beware..and why....well let me give you examples....tbbr wrote:Even a reg no is no insurance.
I know of at least one where the individuals who own the companies and sell property are not qualified in any way.
How they aquired their reg number I leave to those who know more about these things.
But never forget an agent is not there for the benefit of the buyer , they get paid by the seller of the property.
How they sell is not important , JUST thet they sell.
Caveat emptor.
Case 1. Mr & Mrs.R. Have just retired and on retirement paid the last instalement off on their mortgage.They have a little savings tog with their pension. They decide to make their money stretch and live in a warmer climate, so they choose the Algarve. They don't speak Portuguese, so they go to their local library in the UK and start reading all about Portugal and the do's and dont's books about buying property. But such books really don't get to the real nitty gritties...so to be on the safe side, they contact a Portuguese Lawyer....feeling SAFE in the knowledge that their interests will be looked after.
Mr & Mrs R are now back in the U.K....more or less penniless and have no monies to sue said lawyer/estate agent & builder......yes of course a complaint was made to the appropriate body etc.
Case 2. Mrs A's..husband died tragically and around this time also was to have an open heart operation..... (her lawyer knew about the husband & op) she received a telephone call from said lawyer....who said "you know that you were insterested in an investment well "trust me" have I got a good one for you. Oh it was a good one all right, that was 2yrs ago and said lady is still waiting to get the illegale building (part of) legalised and would you believe and to cap it also nearly lost in the region of 40,000 Euros.....which said lawer had uner declared via POA....he even tried to gain another 1000 Euros from her, in unpaid elec/water bills from the previous owner. Luckily, this was spotted and the money was recovered before the matter was reported.
Case 3. Mr & Mrs J.. A young couple with young family, lawyer acting as POA.... without their original knowledge attempted to under declare the price they were paying and also not put down on the deed the Estate Agents details.Again this was discovered and therefore, any problems surrounding tax etc for the young couple at a later date was aborted.
Case 4. Mr & Mrs S... brought a brand new villa, after which it started to really let in water causing a multitude of problems. The couple commenced proceedings against the builder who would not rectify his works. Just as the case was to be heard at the Tribunal, the "builder's lawyer" advised that the builder would buy it back.The builder was using unskilled labour and not entitled to employ them in the first place. (No doubt paid cash in hand). This villa is now back on the market and is advertised as BRAND new.
TBBR, surely and with respect you cannot be serious!.
Nightrider being very serious.
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nightrider
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nightrider
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Guest
nightrider wrote:No...I am ABSOLUETLY fed up to the teeth with this stupid saying...Buyer be Beware..and why....well let me give you examples....tbbr wrote:Even a reg no is no insurance.
I know of at least one where the individuals who own the companies and sell property are not qualified in any way.
How they aquired their reg number I leave to those who know more about these things.
But never forget an agent is not there for the benefit of the buyer , they get paid by the seller of the property.
How they sell is not important , JUST thet they sell.
Caveat emptor.
Case 1. Mr & Mrs.R. Have just retired and on retirement paid the last instalement off on their mortgage.They have a little savings tog with their pension. They decide to make their money stretch and live in a warmer climate, so they choose the Algarve. They don't speak Portuguese, so they go to their local library in the UK and start reading all about Portugal and the do's and dont's books about buying property. But such books really don't get to the real nitty gritties...so to be on the safe side, they contact a Portuguese Lawyer....feeling SAFE in the knowledge that their interests will be looked after.
Mr & Mrs R are now back in the U.K....more or less penniless and have no monies to sue said lawyer/estate agent & builder......yes of course a complaint was made to the appropriate body etc.
Case 2. Mrs A's..husband died tragically and around this time also was to have an open heart operation..... (her lawyer knew about the husband & op) she received a telephone call from said lawyer....who said "you know that you were insterested in an investment well "trust me" have I got a good one for you. Oh it was a good one all right, that was 2yrs ago and said lady is still waiting to get the illegale building (part of) legalised and would you believe and to cap it also nearly lost in the region of 40,000 Euros.....which said lawer had uner declared via POA....he even tried to gain another 1000 Euros from her, in unpaid elec/water bills from the previous owner. Luckily, this was spotted and the money was recovered before the matter was reported.
Case 3. Mr & Mrs J.. A young couple with young family, lawyer acting as POA.... without their original knowledge attempted to under declare the price they were paying and also not put down on the deed the Estate Agents details.Again this was discovered and therefore, any problems surrounding tax etc for the young couple at a later date was aborted.
Case 4. Mr & Mrs S... brought a brand new villa, through a lawyer after which it started to really let in water causing a multitude of problems. The couple commenced proceedings against the builder who would not rectify his works. Just as the case was to be heard at the Tribunal, the "builder's lawyer" (the very same lawyer as theirs) advised that the builder would buy it back.The builder was using unskilled labour and not entitled to employ them in the first place. (No doubt paid cash in hand). This villa is now back on the market and is advertised as BRAND new.
TBBR, surely and with respect you cannot be serious!.
Nightrider being very serious.
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Guest
It does not matter if you are in Portugal, Plymouth or the Phillipines its a fact that if you have money to spend some one will want to supply you for the lowest cost and the highest profit.
Illegal activities have got nothing to do with this.
Sadly Nightrider there are probably as many " dubious " UK businessmen , builders, esstae agents as there are in any other country.
Publicly quoted building firms have been taken to court for bad workmanship and have had to demolish houses etc etc.
UK courts are full of cases of misrepresentaion, fraud or whatever you want to call it.
What horror stories will we soon hear about Turkey, Bulgaria , latvia,croatia and all the other NEW places to invest.
We are all everyone of us looking for that " special deal " and sometimes if it seems that good then is the time to start running.
Illegal activities have got nothing to do with this.
Sadly Nightrider there are probably as many " dubious " UK businessmen , builders, esstae agents as there are in any other country.
Publicly quoted building firms have been taken to court for bad workmanship and have had to demolish houses etc etc.
UK courts are full of cases of misrepresentaion, fraud or whatever you want to call it.
What horror stories will we soon hear about Turkey, Bulgaria , latvia,croatia and all the other NEW places to invest.
We are all everyone of us looking for that " special deal " and sometimes if it seems that good then is the time to start running.
Yes, there are dubious and corrupt people, professionals and non professionals alike, the world over tbbr (I mean I am a supporter of Transparency International, so I know that in Africa and South America we are talking worse, although far worse...sometimes I am not so sure), but I don't think the legal profession in the UK can compare with the bunch of jokers I've come across here and there lies the biggest problem for potential purchasers in Portugal. I, like Nightrider, (although she obviously speaks for herself) could list loads of examples (and proof) of what I am talking about but I don't want to bore everyone with it.
The other problem is not speaking Portuguese. I am sorry, as I know a lot of people are not going to like this, but if you don't speak competent Portuguese how will you ever, really know what is going on? You really are putting your life in someone else's hands, when you can't communicate direct. I don't say all this to be clever or superior or a know-it-all. I say it because, corny as it may sound, I care about stopping people get ripped off and having their dream ruined or worse. I've seen it too many times now and it makes me sick and I am also absolutely passionate about not only this but also about Portugal not getting ripped off. And I am sorry tbbr but illegal activities are VERY very much to do with it.
People, who also look for a special deal and, who cut corners when buying property here are NUTS. UK citizens take their brains out when they go abroad. They can spot potential problems in the UK because they know the language, laws and culture. Here, in general, they don't. I have seen British property developers and smart, streetwise UK business people come unstuck here too.
Unlike some people, who write on this forum, I have no vested interest in doing what I do and no financial reason to spend a lot of my free time helping people out, except maybe it has all been valuable research into what I am writing about. I am also sorry that I feel the need to have to write about all this dreary crap, as I know you and others think I am some miserable, moaning, negative woman. Those, who know me well, I hope, would say otherwise.
The other problem is not speaking Portuguese. I am sorry, as I know a lot of people are not going to like this, but if you don't speak competent Portuguese how will you ever, really know what is going on? You really are putting your life in someone else's hands, when you can't communicate direct. I don't say all this to be clever or superior or a know-it-all. I say it because, corny as it may sound, I care about stopping people get ripped off and having their dream ruined or worse. I've seen it too many times now and it makes me sick and I am also absolutely passionate about not only this but also about Portugal not getting ripped off. And I am sorry tbbr but illegal activities are VERY very much to do with it.
People, who also look for a special deal and, who cut corners when buying property here are NUTS. UK citizens take their brains out when they go abroad. They can spot potential problems in the UK because they know the language, laws and culture. Here, in general, they don't. I have seen British property developers and smart, streetwise UK business people come unstuck here too.
Unlike some people, who write on this forum, I have no vested interest in doing what I do and no financial reason to spend a lot of my free time helping people out, except maybe it has all been valuable research into what I am writing about. I am also sorry that I feel the need to have to write about all this dreary crap, as I know you and others think I am some miserable, moaning, negative woman. Those, who know me well, I hope, would say otherwise.