Utter madness

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PaulGoode
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Re: Utter madness

Post by PaulGoode »

My point is that there is no evidence that lockdowns stem the pandemic when comparing countries that locked down hard enforced the wearing of masks outdoors fared better than those that did not. Pursuing policies that are destroying economies and creating an even greater health crisis that are not working against Covid for the sake of it, is madness. The Trump comment regarding disinfectant is not relevant to my point. Trump was a disaster for the USA but he did speak positively about Hydroxychloroquine and that was ridiculed but is in fact a drug along with Ivermectin that could have been used last year and would have saved many lives. They are safe drugs when administered appropriately and have been on the market for many many years. In contrast the vaccines were rushed through and for the most at risk group the 75+ with comorbidities the abbreviated trial would not have included. The authorities are willing to risk a vaccine that has been fast tracked but not drugs that have been used safely with considerable success. I said before, the age group most at risk of Covid are most at risk of vaccine adverse reactions. If we are relying on mass vaccination to get us out of this mess there are issues to resolve with regards to safety, particularly with the elderly. The average age of a person dying with/off Covid is 82 and the overall survival rate 99.5%. The mortality figures for the under 60’s who are otherwise fit is extremely low. With regards to children and young adults, flu is a bigger threat than Covid and therefore vaccinating that group of people is not worth the risks short and long term that are not yet known. With regards to safe travel in the future I hope they do not make a Covid jab compulsory as then I would definitely not be travelling by air again. Hopefully, sanity will prevail and I expect a negative Covid test will be the pre requisite.

The virus will dissipate in the Spring and Summer and we will have to live with it again come the Autumn and if the vaccines are protecting the age group that most need it along with natural immunity that will have built up, the impact will lessen year on year and we will see it in the same light as flu. Total lockdowns again next winter is an horrific vision.

We are going to have to agree to disagree in this and just hope we are all allowed to live again sooner rather than later.
roy4eyes
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Re: Utter madness

Post by roy4eyes »

Well I seem to have opened a can of worms, as the expression goes - but at least it has proved there is still life in the forum !!

Whilst the two sides will never agree there are some facts that must be considered and questioned.

Distortion of statistics - a rate of 250 in 100,000 sounds horrific until expressed (as it should be) as 0.25% or 1 in every 4000.

Covid-19 is no more a killer than conventional influenza except for the fact that it is more prone to lead to pneumonia which is the killer.

There are already inoculations P.P.V. or PCV13 + PPSV23 booster (well tried and tested) for pneumonia so why was this not the first line of defence ?
I had one 10 years ago at age 70 and a booster early last year and my wife a first early last year and both have since had influenza/covid with the usual symptoms of aching,tiredness and fever but abnormally for both of us none of the chest/lungs/persistent cough/sinus problems that we have had previously with common or garden 'flu.

Finally, in a democratic society (and I appreciate this will bring cries of callousness !!) should 98.2% of the population suffer for the grief of 1.8% of the population ?
widge
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Re: Utter madness

Post by widge »

Well Roy " a can of worms" it is.

Yet again your selective use of statistics serves to underline the point you wish to impress upon us but..............

What if we let the 98.2% run free today and ignore the virus ? What would the rate of infection and death be in 3 months time ?

Would you personally exercise your right to eat out, hug your friends, go on a plane, would / could you return to normal life when the hospitals are full with infected people and the mortuaries are full of dead people mostly younger than you.

Could you continue to argue for a more liberal approach to restrictions, open the border with Brazil and South Africa ( UK for that matter) when everywhere the pandemic is rampant and mutating faster than we can modify our vaccines to prevent it.

How long do you think our exhausted medical staff can survive this onslaught ? How many will die in the front line, how many will resign because they can no longer cope ?

I think your statistics serve to reinforce how effective the measures taken have been and fail to predict the disastrous consequences that premature liberation will bring.

Imperial College London

"According to the unmitigated scenario, if left unchecked the virus could have infected 7 billion people and caused in the region of 40 million deaths this year. Social distancing to reduce the rate of social contacts by 40 per cent, coupled with a 60 per cent reduction in social contacts among the elderly population (at highest risk) could reduce this burden by around half. However, even at this level of reduction, health systems in all countries would be rapidly overwhelmed, the modelling revealed."
PaulGoode
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Re: Utter madness

Post by PaulGoode »

Roy, yes we have certainly stirred things up! I think as long as people respect each other’s views it is good to have a healthy debate. The problem with having an opposing view to the mainstream is you are labelled a conspiracy theorist. Free speech and civil liberties in general are being eroded everywhere. If you cite anti vax messages on social media it most probably will be removed. The powers that be are certainly trying to stifle open debate which in itself is alarming. There are now ‘fact checkers’ that seem to be the oracle of all that is correct and they declare every other view as fiction.

The press are relentlessly gloomy and you will only hear the negative spin unless it is about the vaccines and you are right to say that the statistics are being skewed to support the government narrative. A recent example was the BBC declared that 2020 had the worst excess mortality since 1942. What they omitted to state was that when age and population was taken into account 2020 compared with 2010. Liam Fox called the BBC out on this in the Commons shortly afterwards and chastised them for reporting it in this way.

If the vaccine does protect the demographic that need and want it and over time natural immunity spreads throughout the population, Covid will be become less of a threat.

Hopefully, we will see other forms of treatments validated for use in the U.K. and Europe generally and used alongside the vaccines. We shouldn’t be forced into taking vaccines as no one can give assurances that they are safe in the short and especially the long term. The developers have stated that they cannot guarantee that they will prevent infection or stop transmission. That is the huge downside of a very short development and testing period.

All the best. Keep smiling!
roy4eyes
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Re: Utter madness

Post by roy4eyes »

Widge you have put into my mouth words which I did not say or imply.

My questions perhaps in a more understandable way are :-

1/ why are the statistics presented in such an abnormal and scaring way ?
2/ why concentrate on the relatively harmless cause rather than the deadly effect ?

If the pneumonia aspect had been treated early perhaps people would have done as we did - go to bed feeling thoroughly miserable for a few days and not been forced to hospital - where incidentally we have exhausted staff every year at the influenza peak.
I would not hug anyone exhibiting viral symptoms, always have been a standoffish type of person who does not indulge in the habit of kissing everyone I meet and take a mask with me for the occasions I am in a situation with coughing,sneezing sniffling people around me or I am the propogator.
If the billions spent on detection of a viral infection which has been present for in one form or another for centuries had been spent on the resultant killer (pneumonia) we could probably have a more normal life by now.

Re the 98.2% it was a question, not an opinion !
widge
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Re: Utter madness

Post by widge »

Roy , I apologise if you think I have misrepresented your views, sometimes the written word is interpreted in differing ways by readers.

I rest my case as I appreciate that the point I raise is without factual response, eg how much worse would the pandemic be without the restrictions we have endured?

All your stats are based upon historical facts and I note that you have no observations about your vision of future life without restrictions.

My final word. - promise .

Best wishes
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