Tolls on the A22

[Aitch]

Mind you, speaking as a property rental owner, who cares about our guests, I'd like to be able to give them the correct information prior to arrival !
I'll bet your memories as a tourist in Trondheim are tainted by your experience.

No, not at all, I loved it. Just the price of beer and -26deg temperature were a bit hard to bear!!

[alanr]

I wouldn't be too sure that the tourist trade will not be affected.

We were due to come out in June with our daughter, son-in-law and 3 year old grandson - his first time abroad. We had lined up a beautiful villa and all told we would have probably spent £6 - 7,000 excluding flights in the two weeks.

We are no longer coming. I have no objection whatsoever to the tolls, but it is much easier throwing a few coins in a basket, like here or Spain, and the hassle and confusion has put us off. We like Carvoeiro, but we also like other places around Europe and until this is sorted we will just go there for this year.

How many tolls will it take to make up the £6 -7,000 the local economy would have received?

[Aitch]

Here is the link to Via Verde Application form:

https://clientes.viaverde.pt/AdesaoServico/Intro.jsf

It is in Portuguese, but not too difficult to work out, or if you have Google Chrome, it will translate it for you

[cereza]

I wouldn't be too sure that the tourist trade will not be affected.

We were due to come out in June with our daughter, son-in-law and 3 year old grandson - his first time abroad. We had lined up a beautiful villa and all told we would have probably spent £6 - 7,000 excluding flights in the two weeks.

We are no longer coming. I have no objection whatsoever to the tolls, but it is much easier throwing a few coins in a basket, like here or Spain, and the hassle and confusion has put us off. We like Carvoeiro, but we also like other places around Europe and until this is sorted we will just go there for this year.

How many tolls will it take to make up the £6 -7,000 the local economy would have received?

This is exactly how this stupid idea will affect tourism. Simple toll booths would have caused absolutely no problem but the thought of having to buy machines and set up payments will put people off visiting the area - not so much this year but next year after the bad experience of this year and receiving bills in the post months after a holiday. This is a simple motorway toll and cannot be compared to say the London congestion charge which covers an area not 1 road. Personally I think the whole concept for the A22 beggars belief and even at this stage let's hope that the idiots in charge see sense.

[James Faro]

This is exactly how this stupid idea will affect tourism. Simple toll booths would have caused absolutely no problem but the thought of having to buy machines and set up payments will put people off visiting the area - not so much this year but next year after the bad experience of this year and receiving bills in the post months after a holiday. This is a simple motorway toll and cannot be compared to say the London congestion charge which covers an area not 1 road. Personally I think the whole concept for the A22 beggars belief and even at this stage let's hope that the idiots in charge see sense.

I am not quite sure but I think the QE2 bridge over Dartford still has the "throwing coins in a basket" mechanism.

This same mechanism was deployed on the M50 motorway in Dublin. All of a sudden the M50 had installed cameras and you had to pay the toll by the next day 8pm on-line; by phone;or at a local garage - if not a fine! I asked around why they changed the system and the official response was that (1)it would stop the queues of cars slowing down to pay the toll and (2)saved labour costs not having to employ people night and day.

HOWEVER, the most likely explanation I was told was that there was a lot of fiddling going on keeping the money as the toll operators could manipulate the car number counters. Also, for those who did not have the exact change; they had to pay-in at a special booth and get change.The operators on certain days were told to keep the change as they were earning a nice little earner. Good luck to them!

Fiddle or no fiddle the A22 toll is a no-brainer. In effect the Portuguese government is saying: "Come to our country; please visit our many areas and spend money to support our local economies; oh and by the way we charge you for using our roads in order to support our economy!"

[Michael Crane]

..... In effect the Portuguese government is saying: "Come to our country; please visit our many areas and spend money to support our local economies; oh and by the way we charge you for using our roads in order to support our economy!"

And how does this differ from every other country/region where toll roads are in use? It doesn't!

Paying a toll to use a 'better' road isn't the problem - it's the method of collection and its administration that is. Once that is sorted out it'll function as well as the tolls up North.

[James Faro]

And how does this differ from every other country/region where toll roads are in use? It doesn't! Paying a toll to use a 'better' road isn't the problem - it's the method of collection and its administration that is. Once that is sorted out it'll function as well as the tolls up North.

So do you think all those people demonstrating in CVO; the businesses, the residents; the opposing politicians and the newspapers are all wrong? How very interesting! I think you would soon change your tune if the roads where you live in the UK imposed a levy.

You keep forgetting that there was (1)no referendum on this (2)no mandate to implement this. It was imposed with the subtly of a mallet against an egg!

In Edinburgh a few years ago a referendum was held to propose a toll/congestion charge and it was defeated by 75% of those who voted. Now that is democracy!

[cereza]

You keep forgetting that there was (1)no referendum on this (2)no mandate to implement this. It was imposed with the subtly of a mallet against an egg!

In Edinburgh a few years ago a referendum was held to propose a toll/congestion charge and it was defeated by 75% of those who voted. Now that is democracy!

Yes - also the people of Iceland voted against paying the money owed to people in the UK and turkeys also have always voted against Christmas
Portugals economy is in a diabolical mess and the government needs to raise money via taxes so motorway tolls are one method to raise this revenue.
The point here is that, unlike the wealthier North of Portugal the poorer area of the Algarve relies to a massive extent on tourism. Tourists travelling by car are quite used to paying tolls in France, Spain and other countries but by means of toll booths which accept coins,notes and cards - it is simple whereas this system now being introduced will be nothing but a pain in the arse and will cause nothing but totally unnecessary problems and I am sure will turn out to be counter productive.
Yes the Dartford crossing still uses toll booths and some of them are for correct change only but the sheer volume of traffic on this crossing means that it bears no resemblance to the A22 in the Algarve

[Michael Crane]

"So do you think all those people demonstrating in CVO; the businesses, the residents; the opposing politicians and the newspapers are all wrong? How very interesting! I think you would soon change your tune if the roads where you live in the UK imposed a levy."

No, not wrong, just not keen on having to pay to use the A22. Why would I 'change my tune'? I use the Dartford Crossing. The Humber Bridge. The Dunham Bridge. All charge me for their use - and I don't mind. Nor will I mind choosing to use the A22 and paying for it - but it's the 'paying for it' that I object to in its method and administration. From what I've read of it so far, it is going to be a shambles.

"You keep forgetting that there was (1)no referendum on this (2)no mandate to implement this. It was imposed with the subtly of a mallet against an egg!"

Is a mandate or referendum necessary? I thought it was a condition of the money provided to fund its building, and therefor such a toll happening (at last) cannot be a surprise.

"In Edinburgh a few years ago a referendum was held to propose a toll/congestion charge and it was defeated by 75% of those who voted. Now that is democracy!"

No, that's not democracy, that's a bunch of people voting not to spend more money. I reckon any similar vote that gave us the choice of not having to pay more for something would have the same outcome, be it petrol, beer or fags!

[James Faro]

When you see red that does not mean you have to type in red.

[Michael Crane]

When you see red that does not mean you have to type in red.

No, it's in red so that you don't confuse my comments with yours. I wouldn't want you to accuse me of plagiarism.

[mac]

I'm back in Carvoeiro later this year and have no problem about paying a toll to travel on the A22. I think the toll from Faro to Lagoa is only going to be about 8E anyway so it's not going to break the Bank! The only problem I have with it, is where I'm going to have to pay the damn thing. All this about green boxes and queueing up in Portuguese post offices without the relevant language is going to be a laugh a minute.

[James Faro]

I'm back in Carvoeiro later this year and have no problem about paying a toll to travel on the A22. I think the toll from Faro to Lagoa is only going to be about 8E anyway so it's not going to break the Bank! The only problem I have with it, is where I'm going to have to pay the damn thing. All this about green boxes and queueing up in Portuguese post offices without the relevant language is going to be a laugh a minute.

If somebody stays in CVO for a week or two weeks then no it won't break the bank and that is true. However, some holidaymakers like to explore around and will use the A22 to get the far west or far east every day.If it is €8.00 each day(I assume it is for a day)then say 10 days driving is €80.00 and that is a considerable sum.

I think it will put people off but the proof of the pudding will be in the tourists numbers when they become available later this year. Numbers may improve this year - who knows!

I am afraid the toll is here to stay whether we like it or not!

[mac]

Well I may be different then but we only use the A22 to get to and from our house. AFter that, we use all the small roads to do our exploring as we like to see the country at a slower pace, not whizzing by at 60mph. Our choice.

[e-richard]

Mac, I think you are in the majority, and JF's friends who like to travel 100km every day along the motorway (@ 8c per km) are probably not your average tourist.
There are business folks however who may well clock up that sort of usage, and even with the concessions for local businesses may find the cost burdensome, but at least they should have their own transponders.

However, lets not lose sight of the issue raised by alanr earlier where he clearly says that its not the cost but the confusion that is putting him off.

I really do not think we're doing Algarve tourism any favours by labouring the confusion based on unknowns. Lets wait and see what actually happens on April 15th after which we may well find it a lot simpler than the speculation.... or, of course, we may not