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more on tourist property licences
more on tourist property licences
this from regiao sul newspaper
First page > Algarve News > News
Touristic properties at the centre of controversy
DGT opt to clarify in Lisbon
The AEA - Associação Empresarial de Almancil (Almancil Business Association) cancelled the meeting announced for 21st February, to which more than 100 participants had registered their intention to attend, where it had been anticipated that clarification would be given in respect of the recent problems of legalisation of touritic properties.
The Região Sul has learnt that the Direcção Geral de Turismo (DGT) proposes holding, in mid-March, in Lisbon, a meeting to clarify with the authorities the technical aspects related to this subject, having declined to be present at this meeting scheduled for 21st February. It is also known that not all of the authorities have expressed the same opinion about the way to deal with the legalisation of such properties.
An entitity that does not have doubts, some weeks ago, was the IGAE (Inspector General of Economic Activities), which brought actions against various rental agencies and which however was structured, not providing for the time being any clarifications about this question.
The activity of renting properties for tourism is a fundamental activity in the economy of the municipality of Loulé, with a greater preponderence in Almancil and Vilamoura. Contacting various agencies, they expressed desperation and not knowing what to do, as they were given no clear and precise information about what they have to do to comply with the law and call for the Government to concede the necessary time for processes of legalisation of the properties to be prepared and approved by the appropriate authorities.
The AEA have maintained contacts with the Municipal Council of Loulé, the Região de Turismo do Algarve and the Direcção-Geral de Turismo, seeking to make available to their business associates the information which will allow them to satisfy legal requisites and proposes developing an effort for "raising the awareness of the Government and inspecting entities for the urgent necessity of allowing the continuity of economic activity". In addition to this, the AEA makes itself available to maintain a permanent dialogue with the diverse entities, "contributing towards finding the best way for companies to regularise their situation" and is further available to establish protocols with architectural offices to obtain special conditions for Members of the AEA.
Aníbal Moreno, President of the Board of the AEA, expressed the hope that good sense will prevail on the part of the Government and that the necessary conditions and time are allowed, which are indispensible for the businesses to regularise the situation of rental properties, without affecting the normal functioning of their actividade during the estival season.
"It is not reasonable to blame or penalise the businesses, when all the entities involved in this process have their part-quota of responsibility for having arrived at this point. There should be the support necessary on the part of the responsible authorities and the businesses to give the adequate response, which is to comply with the law!" states the President of the AEA.
First page > Algarve News > News
Touristic properties at the centre of controversy
DGT opt to clarify in Lisbon
The AEA - Associação Empresarial de Almancil (Almancil Business Association) cancelled the meeting announced for 21st February, to which more than 100 participants had registered their intention to attend, where it had been anticipated that clarification would be given in respect of the recent problems of legalisation of touritic properties.
The Região Sul has learnt that the Direcção Geral de Turismo (DGT) proposes holding, in mid-March, in Lisbon, a meeting to clarify with the authorities the technical aspects related to this subject, having declined to be present at this meeting scheduled for 21st February. It is also known that not all of the authorities have expressed the same opinion about the way to deal with the legalisation of such properties.
An entitity that does not have doubts, some weeks ago, was the IGAE (Inspector General of Economic Activities), which brought actions against various rental agencies and which however was structured, not providing for the time being any clarifications about this question.
The activity of renting properties for tourism is a fundamental activity in the economy of the municipality of Loulé, with a greater preponderence in Almancil and Vilamoura. Contacting various agencies, they expressed desperation and not knowing what to do, as they were given no clear and precise information about what they have to do to comply with the law and call for the Government to concede the necessary time for processes of legalisation of the properties to be prepared and approved by the appropriate authorities.
The AEA have maintained contacts with the Municipal Council of Loulé, the Região de Turismo do Algarve and the Direcção-Geral de Turismo, seeking to make available to their business associates the information which will allow them to satisfy legal requisites and proposes developing an effort for "raising the awareness of the Government and inspecting entities for the urgent necessity of allowing the continuity of economic activity". In addition to this, the AEA makes itself available to maintain a permanent dialogue with the diverse entities, "contributing towards finding the best way for companies to regularise their situation" and is further available to establish protocols with architectural offices to obtain special conditions for Members of the AEA.
Aníbal Moreno, President of the Board of the AEA, expressed the hope that good sense will prevail on the part of the Government and that the necessary conditions and time are allowed, which are indispensible for the businesses to regularise the situation of rental properties, without affecting the normal functioning of their actividade during the estival season.
"It is not reasonable to blame or penalise the businesses, when all the entities involved in this process have their part-quota of responsibility for having arrived at this point. There should be the support necessary on the part of the responsible authorities and the businesses to give the adequate response, which is to comply with the law!" states the President of the AEA.
well perhaps what they deserve...kill the golden goose..result unemployment ..less taxes ..more recession
and the precursor to this...the tax they stuck on the 4 wheel drive car market..completely killed it..as one observer noted if they had just left it alone they would have got more tax but now they get zero
and the precursor to this...the tax they stuck on the 4 wheel drive car market..completely killed it..as one observer noted if they had just left it alone they would have got more tax but now they get zero
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Mike,Chislehurst
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Would appear some of the local management agecies that also let villas are beginning to not advertise the villas they manage. I've also been advised to contact my lawyer for further advice. This I will do, but is there any more information that anyone can throw at me apart from the above before I do. I can appreciate the need for a "safety certificate" but the way this is being handled at the moment is scandalous.
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nightrider
Mike,
I think many would agree, but all I am aware of is that because so many have basically kicked up over this matter, local meetings have been cancelled..... and according to the media reports all are waiting the outcome of Portugal's Government Meeting planned for this month... to hopefully revise their somewhat heavy hand yet again... time and time ago over the past 5 years legislation appears to be past with little notice to anyone inclusive of local departments who have no preparation to be able to advise businesses and the general public correctly.....in otherwords yet again another fiasco.If I hear anything I will immediately post as I am quite sure Martin and others will likewise do.Sorry that I personally cannot be of more help at the moment. N.R.
I think many would agree, but all I am aware of is that because so many have basically kicked up over this matter, local meetings have been cancelled..... and according to the media reports all are waiting the outcome of Portugal's Government Meeting planned for this month... to hopefully revise their somewhat heavy hand yet again... time and time ago over the past 5 years legislation appears to be past with little notice to anyone inclusive of local departments who have no preparation to be able to advise businesses and the general public correctly.....in otherwords yet again another fiasco.If I hear anything I will immediately post as I am quite sure Martin and others will likewise do.Sorry that I personally cannot be of more help at the moment. N.R.
Last edited by nightrider on Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mike,Chislehurst
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nightrider
Hi Mike, As a member, I am able to read any new bulletins from AFPOP via the internet as I have a personal code to get into their site...but I cannot see anything with regard this matter at the moment.
AFPOP: 00 351 282 458 509. N.R.
AFPOP: 00 351 282 458 509. N.R.
Last edited by nightrider on Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mike,Chislehurst
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nightrider
Mike,
As a registered member, I double checked their site and could find no information. So a moment ago I telephoned AFPOP and they very kindly told me, that the situation is at the moment that Albuferia, are already issuing a 15 page document, which explains exactly what you require to gain a licence.
As far as they are aware they believe that Lagoa is close also to issuing same.
They also said that they too have read the article with regard to Portugal's Central Government's pending meeting (as mentioned above).
Regards N.R.
As a registered member, I double checked their site and could find no information. So a moment ago I telephoned AFPOP and they very kindly told me, that the situation is at the moment that Albuferia, are already issuing a 15 page document, which explains exactly what you require to gain a licence.
As far as they are aware they believe that Lagoa is close also to issuing same.
They also said that they too have read the article with regard to Portugal's Central Government's pending meeting (as mentioned above).
Regards N.R.
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Mike,Chislehurst
- CVO Master
- Posts: 974
- Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2003 6:15 pm
- Location: Chislehurst, Kent
- Contact:
read the latest from the observer...lurve the part where each rental property has to be inspected " by a committee consisting of three municipal officials, the delegate of health, a representative of the National Fire Brigade Service, a representative of the tourism organisation and a representative of the corresponding business association."
have they nothing else to do all day?
Fines for illegal tourist accommodation
3/13/2006 8:02:00 AM
The checks that are underway on illegal tourist properties have sent a wave of insecurity through the sector. Mendes Bota says that the municipalities do not have the capacity to license what there is immediately and he wants to extend the deadline until 2007.
In a debate in a plenary session of the Assembly of the Republic on Friday, Bota questioned the Secretary of State for Tourism, Bernardo Trindade, about the activities of the ex-General Inspectorate of Economic Activities towards tourist agencies whose business is the renting of apartments and houses, without them being legalised.
From the companies inspected, the deputy quoted an example of one which received 41 notices of administrative offences, one for each unit, which are liable to fines ranging from € 2,500.00 to € 30,000.00 per dwelling.
According to him, in this agency alone, if the fines were at the lowest level, they would amount to 100,000 euros, which “could lead to the closure of the business”.
He said that these inspections were disproportionately rigorous, because the owners could also be fined along with the promoters of the rental properties.
For Mendes Bota, it is not a question of defending the parallel market, since these actions were not even targeting possible tax evasion, but rather a situation in which it was impossible in practice to comply with one’s legal obligations.
He protested that the municipal councils, especially those where this type of tourist provision is most frequent, do not know how to deal with this problem, are confused and have not issued the certificates, and in addition to this the process is burdensome and complex.
By law, the legalisation of tourist accommodation necessitates inspections carried out by a committee consisting of three municipal officials, the delegate of health, a representative of the National Fire Brigade Service, a representative of the tourism organisation and a representative of the corresponding business association.
The deputy said that only people who are unaware of the realities here could imagine that this could be implemented, and he complained about the fact that a simple apartment is treated in the same way as a 500-room hotel.
Mendes Bota accused the government of having launched a punitive campaign without having previously held campaigns of information and clarification for the municipalities and tourist agents, given the technical and legal complexity involved in obtaining the authorisation licence or the licence for tourist utilisation of houses and apartments.
In this context, he presented a draft resolution in the Assembly of the Republic demanding the revision and simplification of decree-law 55/2002 and a deadline until the end of 2007 for all situations to be regularised.
Mendes Bota emphasised that in this whole process there are “shared responsibilities”, on the part of owners, who are at fault, the agencies, which do not require licences and the municipalities which have not equipped themselves technically, but also the State “because it has been lax over the decades”.
For Mendes Bota, the tourist agencies which work in the sector of complementary provision of tourist accommodation are in a cul-de-sac.
He said that, if they request a licence, the councils won’t issue one, either because they don’t know how to or they can’t. If they remove the villas and apartments from their window, they won’t have a product and they will close. If they don’t remove the product from the window, they risk a flood of prohibitive fines, and they will go bankrupt.
Outside the parliamentary debate, the deputy expressed the view that the agencies end up being penalised but the fact that they do not have a licence for tourist use does not mean that the taxes on income obtained has not been declared.
In his opinion, the main source of tax evasion occurs in the relationship between two private individuals, and there the government has done nothing. Those who least deserve it have probably been punished.
The deputy expressed his conviction that the government would end up retreating because there was no reason for the uncoordinated and unwise way it had behaved and it would end up revising the law for the licensing of tourist resorts with the aim of simplifying it.
Government not giving in
For his part, Bernardo Trindade accepted that the state had been lax, and had responsibilities, but only up to 2004, but he did not accept that the fines for the notices of administrative offences that had already been issued should be pardoned.
The Secretary of State has meanwhile announced that, in a meeting that the Directorate General of Tourism will hold on 15th March, the Municipal Assemblies will be requested, as a matter of urgency, to approve the regulations for establishments offering accommodation, with simpler procedures.
It will be recalled that about 40% of the provision of tourist accommodation in the Algarve is not legalised, according to estimates by the official bodies linked to the tourism sector.
have they nothing else to do all day?
Fines for illegal tourist accommodation
3/13/2006 8:02:00 AM
The checks that are underway on illegal tourist properties have sent a wave of insecurity through the sector. Mendes Bota says that the municipalities do not have the capacity to license what there is immediately and he wants to extend the deadline until 2007.
In a debate in a plenary session of the Assembly of the Republic on Friday, Bota questioned the Secretary of State for Tourism, Bernardo Trindade, about the activities of the ex-General Inspectorate of Economic Activities towards tourist agencies whose business is the renting of apartments and houses, without them being legalised.
From the companies inspected, the deputy quoted an example of one which received 41 notices of administrative offences, one for each unit, which are liable to fines ranging from € 2,500.00 to € 30,000.00 per dwelling.
According to him, in this agency alone, if the fines were at the lowest level, they would amount to 100,000 euros, which “could lead to the closure of the business”.
He said that these inspections were disproportionately rigorous, because the owners could also be fined along with the promoters of the rental properties.
For Mendes Bota, it is not a question of defending the parallel market, since these actions were not even targeting possible tax evasion, but rather a situation in which it was impossible in practice to comply with one’s legal obligations.
He protested that the municipal councils, especially those where this type of tourist provision is most frequent, do not know how to deal with this problem, are confused and have not issued the certificates, and in addition to this the process is burdensome and complex.
By law, the legalisation of tourist accommodation necessitates inspections carried out by a committee consisting of three municipal officials, the delegate of health, a representative of the National Fire Brigade Service, a representative of the tourism organisation and a representative of the corresponding business association.
The deputy said that only people who are unaware of the realities here could imagine that this could be implemented, and he complained about the fact that a simple apartment is treated in the same way as a 500-room hotel.
Mendes Bota accused the government of having launched a punitive campaign without having previously held campaigns of information and clarification for the municipalities and tourist agents, given the technical and legal complexity involved in obtaining the authorisation licence or the licence for tourist utilisation of houses and apartments.
In this context, he presented a draft resolution in the Assembly of the Republic demanding the revision and simplification of decree-law 55/2002 and a deadline until the end of 2007 for all situations to be regularised.
Mendes Bota emphasised that in this whole process there are “shared responsibilities”, on the part of owners, who are at fault, the agencies, which do not require licences and the municipalities which have not equipped themselves technically, but also the State “because it has been lax over the decades”.
For Mendes Bota, the tourist agencies which work in the sector of complementary provision of tourist accommodation are in a cul-de-sac.
He said that, if they request a licence, the councils won’t issue one, either because they don’t know how to or they can’t. If they remove the villas and apartments from their window, they won’t have a product and they will close. If they don’t remove the product from the window, they risk a flood of prohibitive fines, and they will go bankrupt.
Outside the parliamentary debate, the deputy expressed the view that the agencies end up being penalised but the fact that they do not have a licence for tourist use does not mean that the taxes on income obtained has not been declared.
In his opinion, the main source of tax evasion occurs in the relationship between two private individuals, and there the government has done nothing. Those who least deserve it have probably been punished.
The deputy expressed his conviction that the government would end up retreating because there was no reason for the uncoordinated and unwise way it had behaved and it would end up revising the law for the licensing of tourist resorts with the aim of simplifying it.
Government not giving in
For his part, Bernardo Trindade accepted that the state had been lax, and had responsibilities, but only up to 2004, but he did not accept that the fines for the notices of administrative offences that had already been issued should be pardoned.
The Secretary of State has meanwhile announced that, in a meeting that the Directorate General of Tourism will hold on 15th March, the Municipal Assemblies will be requested, as a matter of urgency, to approve the regulations for establishments offering accommodation, with simpler procedures.
It will be recalled that about 40% of the provision of tourist accommodation in the Algarve is not legalised, according to estimates by the official bodies linked to the tourism sector.
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Mexican Pete
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nightrider
Martin,
On the television they announced that Portugal is owed somewhere in the region of 17 Billion Euros via evasion of taxes.
For the love of me, I cannot as a simple person understand why they cock up nearly everytime in trying to re-coup and/or gather taxes etc:- I.e. it seems to me that everytime they attempt it..they cut of their nose to despite their face.
Surely, tourism is their biggest caption of money and to cane unfairly, this very important industry to Portugal's growth...well I just cannot find the words I need, some of which I feel sure that the moderators would rightly remove anyway. If anything Portugal's government should be bending over backwords to help this industry.
I mean look at the fiasco over purchasing a property offshore.Many wanted to purchase back into their names, but could not afford it. Now if Portugal had put their thinking caps on and said to every owner..ok we want from you the tax that you should have paid at the time of your original purchase, then I believe the amount(s) could have been afforded by the owner(s). Instead of which the levy was so high for many that they could not afford to purchase back into their names and merely sought white listed countries outside of the EU Countries. Therefore, the situation has not changed for Portugal and really no different for the owners or those wishing to purchase offshore. Had the Portuguese government really thought this one out as set out above, their piggy bank could have been... now overflowing.
Now with those involved in tourism, the present government imho should be bending over backwards to assist those involved in letting etc, be they well established companies or those wishing to simply let an apartment in their homes.
I wonder if the tourism industry in Portugal has its own members association and if so why are they now not speaking up etc. If there is not an association, then it's about time this industry got together.
I would also like to see all the Offshore Owners getting together and jointly putting their case to the Portuguese Government and perhaps the EU. But I suppose that I am just dreaming, I suspect like many, I love Portugal but at times get so frustrated, when people make life difficult, when given a little thought at the end of the day it can be sorted to all's satisfaction.
People keep telling me Portugal is a young country compared to most of Europe, no it is not. The Revolution has been over 30 or so yrs now.
On a personal note my Uncle Joseph supplied tanks and additional to assist the Revolution and to give the Portuguese People their freedom. He also years ago saw the potiental of purchasing land in Sussex, Australia and Jersey and yes he has made an awful lot of money and has homes in all these areas, but he has given a lot back to help the respective economy. I wonder when he compares...say the progress of Australia against Portugal's since the latter's revolution what he thinks? I know that he still has many friends in Lisboa. One of these days I must ask his opinion. So watch this space, it could be interesting .N.R.
On the television they announced that Portugal is owed somewhere in the region of 17 Billion Euros via evasion of taxes.
For the love of me, I cannot as a simple person understand why they cock up nearly everytime in trying to re-coup and/or gather taxes etc:- I.e. it seems to me that everytime they attempt it..they cut of their nose to despite their face.
Surely, tourism is their biggest caption of money and to cane unfairly, this very important industry to Portugal's growth...well I just cannot find the words I need, some of which I feel sure that the moderators would rightly remove anyway. If anything Portugal's government should be bending over backwords to help this industry.
I mean look at the fiasco over purchasing a property offshore.Many wanted to purchase back into their names, but could not afford it. Now if Portugal had put their thinking caps on and said to every owner..ok we want from you the tax that you should have paid at the time of your original purchase, then I believe the amount(s) could have been afforded by the owner(s). Instead of which the levy was so high for many that they could not afford to purchase back into their names and merely sought white listed countries outside of the EU Countries. Therefore, the situation has not changed for Portugal and really no different for the owners or those wishing to purchase offshore. Had the Portuguese government really thought this one out as set out above, their piggy bank could have been... now overflowing.
Now with those involved in tourism, the present government imho should be bending over backwards to assist those involved in letting etc, be they well established companies or those wishing to simply let an apartment in their homes.
I wonder if the tourism industry in Portugal has its own members association and if so why are they now not speaking up etc. If there is not an association, then it's about time this industry got together.
I would also like to see all the Offshore Owners getting together and jointly putting their case to the Portuguese Government and perhaps the EU. But I suppose that I am just dreaming, I suspect like many, I love Portugal but at times get so frustrated, when people make life difficult, when given a little thought at the end of the day it can be sorted to all's satisfaction.
People keep telling me Portugal is a young country compared to most of Europe, no it is not. The Revolution has been over 30 or so yrs now.
On a personal note my Uncle Joseph supplied tanks and additional to assist the Revolution and to give the Portuguese People their freedom. He also years ago saw the potiental of purchasing land in Sussex, Australia and Jersey and yes he has made an awful lot of money and has homes in all these areas, but he has given a lot back to help the respective economy. I wonder when he compares...say the progress of Australia against Portugal's since the latter's revolution what he thinks? I know that he still has many friends in Lisboa. One of these days I must ask his opinion. So watch this space, it could be interesting .N.R.
I see its front page news in the resident and euroweekly this week ...I did write to AFPOP about three weeks ago and ask why they have said nothing in the aptly named "update"..seems they have known about it since 97 (gee thanks for telling us!) but they dont want to say anything in case its a kneejerk reaction ..trouble with APPOP is that there is no reaction at all...I did refer the boss to this website but he replied in a dismissive way about the content here .
Perhaps if any who write here are members of AFPOP they could contact them as its about time AFPOP could do with a stir, as they seem to have become rather complacent of late ..in all honesty they were useless when the offshore fiasco was going on, as they seem now also with the present tax and licence problems.
Perhaps if any who write here are members of AFPOP they could contact them as its about time AFPOP could do with a stir, as they seem to have become rather complacent of late ..in all honesty they were useless when the offshore fiasco was going on, as they seem now also with the present tax and licence problems.