Offshore Company treatment

shanagarry · Post by **shanagarry** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:42 am

Has anybody read the article written in last week's Algarve Resident (Page 20) by Dennis Swing Greene of Finesco regarding the treatment for CGT on Offshore companies - even those held in 'White - listed' jurisdictions?

Is there any end in sight to this continued persecution?

Gazza · Post by **Gazza** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 5:08 pm

No I missed it. Do you by chance have a copy of the article or able to post more details?

Thank you

G

shanagarry · Post by **shanagarry** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:08 pm

Gazza

I do have a copy and can send it by post or fax - let me have the relevant details and I will gladly oblige.

I have taken some advice and it appears that it is a bit of scaremongering - however, I work on the 'no smoke without fire' belief and like to be prepared.

petermeachem · Post by **petermeachem** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:42 pm

I'm not sure cos I don't do it, but isn't having an offshore company a way to avoid tax?
I'm not sure therefore that complaining is valid.

shanagarry · Post by **shanagarry** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:48 pm

It takes all sorts!

petermeachem · Post by **petermeachem** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 8:32 pm

Not quite sure that comment means. Personally I find tax avoidance morally wrong.

iane · Post by **iane** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:30 pm

I have to say that I agree with peter meacham - offshore was a means of avoiding tax - however legal it was it would always mean that someone else pays (there's never been a free lunch yet).

If anyone (including governments - however inefficient) is to balance the books then someone has to pay.

Sorry the party's over guys but you can't have it both ways.

Graham · Post by **Graham** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 9:33 am

Sorry to disagree - those of us who needed a mortgage to buy in the last few years were forced to buy offshore by the likes of Abbey National - and are now stuck in a position of facing bills of hundreds of thousands of Euros in Capital gains tax to bring the property onshore - this would be acceptable if the tax reflected a gain that had been made rather than almost the entire value of the property totally ignoring the money I paid for it in the first place.

I would like to bring my property 'onshore' but I simply do not have the cash to do so.

I also find it difficult to find tax avoidance morally wrong - evasion is definately wrong, but for example using an ISA or a pension fund is a legal way of avoiding tax and I don't see how this can be wrong.

What I think is morally wrong is a Government encouraging foreign investors to it's country, knowing full well that most were buying using offshore methods, and fully accepting the situation, then when you have enough victims trapped in your web they change all the rules, making it impossible for the investors to escape and charging tax out of all proportion to anyone else primarily because they are foreign and do not have a vote

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:52 am

and remember that Maderia was touted by our lovely lawbreaking locals as a tax haven....was it not Jesus Christ who said ....those who without sin cast the first stone...amen

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:10 pm

Graham, how right you are. The ex pats and holiday home owners bring a huge amount of tax euros to the country already, and we have been treated with contempt by the Portguese government. Tax evasion (yes the criminal sort) is still widely practised in Portugal and the Portuguese are experts at it. We are in the process of buying a property and our Portuguese lawyer has two sets of contracts drawn up. One for the tax man with a lower declared value to reduce IMT and one with the real price being paid. Despite changing the rules, it would appear that underdeclaring house prices is still the norm.

As for Peter "holier than thou" Meacham and his perverse opinion. Perhaps he might like to think about the morality of a goverment that tax the hell out of us, squander huge amounts of tax revenue on pointless wars and then introduce more and more stealth taxes to fund their instiable appetite for political correctness.

petermeachem · Post by **petermeachem** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 4:07 pm

Graham,

I probably meant evasion.

I thought offshore was a method of avoiding paying SISA, so that somebody else could pay more tax instead. I would have thought that there were other mortgage providers besides abbey.

Guest, Not sure why the fact that some Portuguese are dishonest makes it ok to be dishonest.
I'm surprised that 'tax evasion is a bad thing to do' is a perversion. I rather disagree with your last sentence, but I don't suppose I could persuade you otherwise.

shanagarry · Post by **shanagarry** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:38 pm

Graham

I could not have put the case for the current offshore position more eloquently - well done and thank you. There seems to be a hard core of the on-shores who subscribe to his beliefs without knowing all the facts.

You saved me the possibility of writing a misive that would have taken up an entire screen.

petermeachem · Post by **petermeachem** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 8:03 pm

Go on then.
In what way is offshore not a tax evasion wheeze. I'd just love to know. Seriously.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 9:51 pm

Peter its simple really

Tax evasion is illegal, and tax avoidance is not. Owning a property through an offshore company is perfectly legal.

Oh............. and having confused evasion with avoidance, you now seem to be confusing morality with honesty.

Graham · Post by **Graham** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 9:09 am

Nicely put guest.

In normal life, if you are found guilty of tax evasion (ie under-declaring your income etc) then when caught you face fines for your sins. If the government finds that there is tax avoidance going on, it simply passes new laws to stop future avoidance.

In Portugal , if you take steps that result in a legitimate reduction of your tax bill (not to mention other key advantages such as the inheritance rules) then the Government makes draconian changes to the laws which in effect fine you for doing something that it encouraged you to do yesterday!

This is on a par with the UK Government suddenly saying to anyone that has an ISA or PEP 'Sorry, it was a mistake to make those all tax free, you will have to pay all the tax you have so far not paid before you can get your money - oh, and by the way, we are also going to charge you a further 40% tax just for being rich enough to have a PEP in the first place'

There were far more discouraging factors than just avoiding SISA that encouraged people to go offshore - most of these have been removed and therefore the case for new purchases being made offshore is now very weak, but why punish those that want to comply by imposing such punitive charges that it is simply impossible!

Offshore owners are not the tax avoiding pariahs that some seem to think - just unlucky people that have suffered from some very strange, and questionably illegal, government fundraising scheme. (Very similar to those suffering from 'land grab' in Spain)

Sorry - rant over

Graham

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