Strange Property Question

Share experience regarding ownership of property and/or living in Portugal.
Post Reply
Ceepeebee
CVO Regular
CVO Regular
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:50 am

Strange Property Question

Post by Ceepeebee »

Hi all,

Currently very jealous of everyone sitting on their porches with a glass of win and relaxing in the Portuguese sun - I'll be there with my wife in 6 weeks for another Holiday.

This will be our 4th year in a row such is the love and affinity we feel for Carvoeiro, and we've often thought about a house out there but we're not the best planners. However I'm determined to at least give it some due diligence.

My question is, does anybody have any areas that you suggest we look to buy property? We won]'t have much money at all, but the plan will be to invest in a holiday home that we can rent out for most of the season in order to get over an initial mortgage and then pay it up and be there more frequently. The main town itself is not somewhere we'd be able to afford a place with a pool or a Villa, but I'm just wondering whether I can pump you who have information relating to the process for some wisdom as to how we might proceed.

Any information would be great as we're just starting this journey and we expect it to be a long one, potentially seeing us living in Portugal at some point. It's a pipe dream currently but I want to start exploring it otherwise we'll never know ill we.

Thanks in advance for any information you can provide
mardi
CVO Regular
CVO Regular
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 6:05 pm

Re: Strange Property Question

Post by mardi »

Hi, we have been in the position you are in and eventually bought a house in around the vale de Milho golf course. We stayed in various locations around Carvoeiro which made making our decision a bit easier. We ruled out the town as we felt it might be a bit noisy. We are within easy walking distance of several restaurants, local beach and small shop. We felt this was important if you didn't want to hire a car. Before we seriously considered a property we found a solicitor and she was only to happy to talk us through all the charges involved in buying, so we knew exactly what was involved. We do not rent our property as we think it's more trouble than it's worth, so can't really comment on that side. We love the area and find it has everything we could want when on holiday or even longer stays in the future. It's also a great base for exploring other areas of Portugal and Spain . I do hope you're dreams come true and you find your perfect property. This forum has been a great help to us when we have needed advice and help. Good luck.
Ceepeebee
CVO Regular
CVO Regular
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:50 am

Re: Strange Property Question

Post by Ceepeebee »

Hello Mardi,

Thanks for your reply firstly.

My Wife's mobility isn't the best currently, and won't get better with age either which was my worry when looking outside of the main town, but we also wouldn't want the noise. We're going to use a day whilst we're here in July to take a run out to some areas and see what we're looking at.

Money-wise, would you mind giving me a ball park as to what you looked at, and whether this was top end or not? Just to get an idea before I delve into the market a bit more.

Thanks again for your help.
Mike Banks
CVO Master
CVO Master
Posts: 575
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:15 pm

Re: Strange Property Question

Post by Mike Banks »

You don't say exactly what type of property you're looking for, but you should look at Rocha Brava, about 3 km east of the village. There are many restaurants within walking distance, plus there is a free minibus shuttle to the village. You can rent the property out through the Rocha Brava management company, either for 5 or 7 months on a fixed contract, or on an ad hoc basis, and they deal with all the hassle for you.
Farol
CVO Master
CVO Master
Posts: 829
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:05 pm
Location: Essex & Ferragudo

Re: Strange Property Question

Post by Farol »

I would suggest that when you are out this summer you explore some other towns as well - the further west you go the cheaper it gets and if noise might be an issue then many towns are quieter than Carvoeiro.

Before you can really explore the figures you need to work out what is important to you: number of bedrooms, number of bathrooms, air con, pool, plot size, number of floors, security, proximity to beach/town, etc.

When we were buying we also made sure that we visited at different times of the year so as to be sure about the weather. We also created a dummy shopping list that included appliances, clothing, bedding, diy goods and so on so that we could be confident of what we could get and where.

If you buy on a condominium then don't forget the service charges - they can vary dramatically & often without proper justification.

Don't forget to budget for car rental - in my opinion you will only get full value from a property by exploring the whole Algarve.

It's difficult for anybody to give much guidance on prices until you have thought about much of the above.

We don't rent our place out which we think keeps it more personal as you can fill it with more personal effects, leave clothes there, not worry about damage or the possible hastle of bookings etc. From what others say on this site I get the impression that rental returns are no longer what they used to be and should be seen as a way of reducing cost rather than a source of income.

We have had our place for 14 years and don't regret it for one second. We visit approx every six weeks all year round - each season offers something different.

My advice to anybody: GO FOR IT :D
PhilT
CVO Regular
CVO Regular
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:35 pm
Location: Sherborne/ Carvoeiro

Re: Strange Property Question

Post by PhilT »

Not strange but fairly common. I would concur with Mike's comments re RB. We have had apartments here since 1987. Originally to provide a safe and reliable summer home with the kids, recovering costs against individual holiday bookings. After 15 years the increment on value equaled the holiday costs. Times move on and prices now are fairly static. You may not make on capital, or pay off a mortgage, but you should recover your operating costs if you rent high season. We would strongly recommend it and suggest when you are out pop down to talk to Steve at the on site agency.
roy4eyes
CVO Master
CVO Master
Posts: 1480
Joined: Tue May 04, 2004 8:16 pm
Location: Carvoeiro

Re: Strange Property Question

Post by roy4eyes »

The nitty gritty !! How much do you want to spend / can afford ?

Then forumers can give you better advice.
widge
CVO Legend
CVO Legend
Posts: 2997
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:02 am
Location: Bristol & Sesmarias

Re: Strange Property Question

Post by widge »

We won]'t have much money at all, but the plan will be to invest in a holiday home that we can rent out for most of the season in order to get over an initial mortgage and then pay it up and be there more frequently. The main town itself is not somewhere we'd be able to afford a place with a pool or a Villa, but I'm just wondering whether I can pump you who have information relating to the process for some wisdom as to how we might proceed.
I would defer any decision until the result and repercussions of the referendum are clear. Buying a property in the Algarve is unlikely to provide you any capital growth or return on capital employed, it is a lifestyle choice and to enjoy it you must have enough free cash to visit regularly incurring flight & car rental costs over and above your normal UK living expenses. In the winter it can be cold and damp and dark so make a point of visiting in January / February before you commit.
fmm
CVO Master
CVO Master
Posts: 1273
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 8:39 am
Contact:

Re: Strange Property Question

Post by fmm »

I come over every two weeks or so minimum - and the winter this year was definitely not long and dark (at least compared with the UK and I was able to do some very direct comparisons!)

Personally, I think Rocha Brava is a great resort, particularly if you want to rent out a lot, but it IS very expensive and old fashioned inside the apartments compared with other available properties.

Just look on RIght Move to see what is available - that is your best bet.

You can buy a one bedroom for as little as 90k on the outskirts of Carvoeiro - or you can pay 250k for something top end, with a fab condo near a beach. Armacao de Pera is cheaper and so is Portimao if you are OK purchasing in one of the high apartment blocks. Pera is actually quite a nice place (I am not that keen on Portimao to be honest) and if you look at the local agents there (pm me if you would like details) rather than on Right Move you will find some much cheaper properties. They tend to be sold to Portuguese people looking for a cheap holiday home, so do not appear on the UK overseas property sites as there is no need to advertise them there - they sell pretty quickly on their own!

If you rent out as a holiday home, then you need to be aware of licensing regulations and also have to pay tax etc. It can be way more aggravation than it is worth. But some of the agents will help you do that if it is a property that they will be able to rent out for you.

There are plenty of options, but you need to be aware that you are very unlikely to make any money from it in terms of increased value of property - I bought a place about 10 years ago and it is worth roughly the same now as it was then (taking into account currency fluctuations). I rented it out for a few years, but realised quickly that no one looked after it properly, so then rented only to friends and friend's families. This has worked out well and I never had problems after that with how the property was looked after.

Feel free to PM if you want any more information :)
DVBRO
CVO Senior
CVO Senior
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:09 pm
Location: Carvoeiro

Re: Strange Property Question

Post by DVBRO »

Having moved here over ten years ago, I would agree with Farol 100%.
However being a visitor on a few weeks holiday will definitely not give you a proper insight of this Country.
My suggestion is to move here for six months and rent. Get to know the area, the people and locations. Experience the acute climate change and do a lot of research.
We originally rented 25 kms north of Alvor, thought it was great, but then realised we were a long way from the shops and madding crowds, in the Summer!
We were going to buy there, but decided to move in to a Complex, near Portimao. This was good at improving the knowledge, Lawyers, Police, Doctors etc. However owing to the astronomical service charges and close proximity of all the units, mainly rented to visitors, time to move again.
Found a beautiful Villa north of Carvoeiro and never looked back.
Take your time, wait for the outcome of Brexit, the stabilisation of the Euro and then make your move.
Good luck.
Rampage
CVO Senior
CVO Senior
Posts: 251
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 5:41 am
Location: Carvoeiro, Portugal

Re: Strange Property Question

Post by Rampage »

Lots of good advice above.

One thing I would suggest is that you make a list of 'must haves' with regard to the property you want to buy. We found this an invaluable tool when we were looking for a property. For example: if there are mobility issues or you are looking for a retirement home, a single storey building without loads of stairs would be better; decide on a minimum number of bedrooms for letting and to allow visiting friends or relatives; decide on a minimum plot size - garden? pool wanted? Access to shops, restaurants etc. - walking distance or are you prepared to drive everywhere?

Prepare your list carefully, exhaustive as possible and initially don't compromise. This will quickly rule out properties that are unsuitable and save you a lot of time and leg-work. We bought our place in 2002 and retired here in May this year. We have never regretted our decision on our choice of property and its location as it was carefully thought out. We rented (using good agents) and never had any problems. You will never make a living out of renting but we found that the income pretty much covered all running costs.
Raithstar
CVO Senior
CVO Senior
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:14 pm
Location: Kirkcaldy ,Fife , Scotland .

Re: Strange Property Question

Post by Raithstar »

Interesting reading all the replies . We are in the same boat and have started looking around different areas in and around Carvoeiro . We spent some time in Armacao do Pera this year and really liked the feel of the place although wouldn't be keen on living in a high rise . Does anyone know roughly the rental price of a 2 bed apartment on a long term let say (12 months ) as I think I would do this before I commit to selling up here and moving lock stock and barrel . Also,we are looking at setting up a business in Carvoeiro just wondering how easy it is to do this ? We are in the early stages of our plan and are starting Portuguese lessons in September as I feel it would be better for our chances (especially in business ) of making this move work .
shanagarry
CVO Legend
CVO Legend
Posts: 2048
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 7:26 pm
Location: Craigweil-on-Sea

Re: Strange Property Question

Post by shanagarry »

I would defer any decision until the result and repercussions of the referendum are clear. Buying a property in the Algarve is unlikely to provide you any capital growth or return on capital employed, it is a lifestyle choice and to enjoy it you must have enough free cash to visit regularly incurring flight & car rental costs over and above your normal UK living expenses. In the winter it can be cold and damp and dark so make a point of visiting in January / February before you commit.[/quote]

Widge - what part of your very sensible advice would you revise in the aftermath of Brexit? I suspect you would reinforce your points on ROI but what about the upheaval caused by sterling's weakness and its impact on those permanent expats receiving their pensions in sterling and having to convert :?
widge
CVO Legend
CVO Legend
Posts: 2997
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:02 am
Location: Bristol & Sesmarias

Re: Strange Property Question

Post by widge »

I don't think we have yet seen all the repercussions of Brexit. If it were me I wouldn't buy a property in Portugal or anywhere else outside the UK but would use the money to enjoy holidays either renting or hotels etc. I bought in 2004 & have enjoyed the ownership experience but, with hindsight, buying in UK would have been a far better proposition and I believe that still to be the case.
Cadenza
CVO Regular
CVO Regular
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:48 pm

Re: Strange Property Question

Post by Cadenza »

I bought a 2 bed property on Quinta do Paraiso this year and love it. The exchange rate worked in my favour and it cost just over £100k plus £5k for fees. If you wish to rent out dont anticipate making much money as property management, maid, laundry, gardener, maintenance, utilities, tourist licence, accountant etc... Is expensive. This is our first year and we inherited the summer bookings from the previous owner. The 16 week income from these lettings we think should pay for the yearly expenses of the property. My recommendation is to do your research, I went to the place in the sun exhibition in London which was brilliant as I knew what questions to ask and I also met my lawyer there who was brilliant. I love my place and can't wait to spend more time there. If you want more in depth information do pm me.
Post Reply