Portuguese Will

Share experience regarding ownership of property and/or living in Portugal.
mug
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Portuguese Will

Post by mug »

Has anyone had their own Will for Portuguese assets created recently?
My wife and I understand we would need one to cover our villa and Bank Account.
Does anyone have any advice or recommendations please?
widge
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Re: Portuguese Will

Post by widge »

Quote "Global Property Guide".................

Usually a local will is not necessary, since Portuguese law provides that inheritance issues are governed by the deceased’s national law. A will made in the deceased’s country should generally suffice; however when Portuguese courts have jurisdiction over the inheritance, then problems may arise if the deceased’s will is not clear (e.g. due to problems of interpretation, or if it has not been updated). In such cases, the courts will strictly apply the law, even if that precludes the constitution of certain people as heirs, which was the deceased’s initial intention. It is advisable, therefore, to ensure that the will is drafted clearly and precisely, and regularly updated to avoid raising doubts in the judge’s mind.
andyco
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Re: Portuguese Will

Post by andyco »

We had Portuguese will drawn up a couple of months ago on recommendation of our lawyer. Only required couple of emails between ourselves and our lawyer and fifteen minutes at the notary to make it official. To be honest, we weren't sure there was much point to it as house and bank account passes to my wife and vice versa but lawyer pointed out Portuguese court might get involved if there was no specified inheritance beyond that. As it turned out, first day we were back in Carvoeiro in September our car ran off the N125 and rolled down an embankment just outside Portimao. We could easily both have been killed, and left just the situation the lawyer had laid out. As it was, a few days in hospital were all that was required and the will is now in place. It's worth it for the peace of mind alone.
steve
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Re: Portuguese Will

Post by steve »

A new EU directive governing inheritance came into force in August this year. Any asset in Portugal will now be dealt with under the national law of forced heirship which allocates fixed percentages to spouse and children unless you have a valid will which enables the law of your nationality to be applied. If you make a new will you need to stipulate that you want the law of your nationality to apply. The directive states that wills made prior to August under nationality law will remain effective. This was confirmed by one notary I spoke to but a separate advice from a solicitor said that a new will was necessary. However I think that the directive is quite clear and the solicitor may have been looking for additional business.
pato
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Re: Portuguese Will

Post by pato »

"Portuguese Will" What bar does he work in? :| :|
Bruce Wallis
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Re: Portuguese Will

Post by Bruce Wallis »

pato wrote:"Portuguese Will" What bar does he work in? :| :|
No wonder this forum is dying.....nothing, however serious is safe from a 'Pato stupid comment'

If you have nothing sensible to add or contribute, Pato, say just that...nothing!
pato
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Re: Portuguese Will

Post by pato »

Bruce Wallis wrote:
pato wrote:"Portuguese Will" What bar does he work in? :| :|
No wonder this forum is dying.....nothing, however serious is safe from a 'Pato stupid comment'

If you have nothing sensible to add or contribute, Pato, say just that...nothing!
Now! Now! you know I leave all the smart arse super intelligent posts to you don't you Bruce, by the way ! what's your opinion on Lord Lucan ordering the Light Brigade into the North Valley in the Battle of Balaclava, I'll bet that will bring some posts in eh! :mrgreen:
Geoff
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Re: Portuguese Will

Post by Geoff »

Back to the serious subject.....

Just to add that our English Solicitor , who knew nothing of Portuguese Law, strongly recommended a Portuguese Will for Portuguese assets. Our Portuguese Lawyer who, we think, knew not a lot of English law, had suggested a Portuguese Will to ensure Inheritance was clearly stated. She drew up some quite simple documents and we all went along to the Notary's office for about 15 mins and a cost of a few hundred euros.

As above, peace of mind, possibly belt & braces.

Trouble is, IHT should be avoidable in Portugal if you leave Portuguese assets to spouse/children but the UK taxman will want his share ( subject to the recently increased reliefs).
Ma-Ja's
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Re: Portuguese Will

Post by Ma-Ja's »

Geoff wrote:Back to the serious subject.....

Just to add that our English Solicitor , who knew nothing of Portuguese Law, strongly recommended a Portuguese Will for Portuguese assets. Our Portuguese Lawyer who, we think, knew not a lot of English law, had suggested a Portuguese Will to ensure Inheritance was clearly stated. She drew up some quite simple documents and we all went along to the Notary's office for about 15 mins and a cost of a few hundred euros.

As above, peace of mind, possibly belt & braces.

Trouble is, IHT should be avoidable in Portugal if you leave Portuguese assets to spouse/children but the UK taxman will want his share ( subject to the recently increased reliefs).
Geoff, would it be possible to have the name and contact details of your Portuguese lawyer please? I am assuming that the few hundred euros is per will - is that correct? Many thanks in advance
widge
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Re: Portuguese Will

Post by widge »

Geoff wrote:Back to the serious subject.....

Just to add that our English Solicitor , who knew nothing of Portuguese Law, strongly recommended a Portuguese Will for Portuguese assets. Our Portuguese Lawyer who, we think, knew not a lot of English law, had suggested a Portuguese Will to ensure Inheritance was clearly stated. She drew up some quite simple documents and we all went along to the Notary's office for about 15 mins and a cost of a few hundred euros.

As above, peace of mind, possibly belt & braces.

Trouble is, IHT should be avoidable in Portugal if you leave Portuguese assets to spouse/children but the UK taxman will want his share ( subject to the recently increased reliefs).
Possibly but beware, especially , as you say, " your English solicitor knew nothing of Portuguese law (most don't) ..............

Wills and Portuguese Civil Code

Under the Portuguese Civil Code, Section 2, sub-section 1, Article 25 states that \\\"succession on death is regulated by the personal law of the respective subject save with regard to certain exceptions which are contained in the relevant section\\\".

This means that any English national dying with property in Portugal can have their English Will recognised without the need for having a Portuguese Will. In other words English law applies.

If you have made a Portuguese Will concerning your Portuguese property and this was made after the date of your English Will, unless it is specifically worded to exclude your English estate, it could well have the effect of revoking your UK Will.

If you have an English Will which excludes your Portuguese property, then it could be re-done to include your Portuguese property, provided the terms of that Will, deal with what you want done with the property in Portugal.

A codicil could be prepared, or you can make an entirely new Will.

As to the costs of doing a new Will, this will of course depend on the terms of the Will and how complicated it is, or if there are any trusts to be included.
Geoff
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Re: Portuguese Will

Post by Geoff »

If you have made a Portuguese Will concerning your Portuguese property and this was made after the date of your English Will, unless it is specifically worded to exclude your English estate, it could well have the effect of revoking your UK Will.
Gosh Widge!

Going from memory, the English Will explicitly excludes Portuguese Assets and vice-versa with the Portuguese one, but will have to check when i get back.

In our case, they basically say the same anyway, ie inheritance goes to spouse then surviving children or grandchildren....so hope that shoudn't be a problem.

think i recall our Portuguese Lawyer saying that a Portuguese will should make matters simpler!

will look up her name/address.
Geoff
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Re: Portuguese Will

Post by Geoff »

Geoff, would it be possible to have the name and contact details of your Portuguese lawyer please? I am assuming that the few hundred euros is per will - is that correct? Many thanks in advance
I THINK the lawyer charged about 200€ and the Notary a bit more...that was for Wills for my wife and I , basically the same, but that was a few years ago.

anyway, she is

Dra. Graca Palhau

At Rua Jose Antonio Marques Nº 3 - C, 2º B, 8500-700 Portimao
282 426 931

The email address we had is : graca.palhau@clix.pt
Expect its still current.


Geoff
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Re: Portuguese Will

Post by Farol »

I think it's almost inevitable that a solicitor in either country will recommend that you need a will - after all they make money from drawing it up. However, the risk associated with having multiple wills should not be understated as I cannot think of an easier way of creating a situation that is subject to legal challenge. EU law, assuming it is EU citizens estates, should enable a single will to be valid so long as it meets the legal requirements in the member country in which it is signed. If people want belt and braces then my approach would be to get a single lawyer that is suitably skilled to draw up one will with sections within it that specifically address assets based in each country in which it is to be applied and also that the wills specifically mention the legal requirements of each country and how sections of the will apply in each country.

If a Portguese lawyer draws up a will for Portugal with no knowledge of UK law how can he be expected to get it right so that it does not clash with a UK will/legislation? Ditto the other way around. Surely the only way to be sure is to have just one lawyer that is versed in international law.
pato
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Re: Portuguese Will

Post by pato »

Farol wrote:I think it's almost inevitable that a solicitor in either country will recommend that you need a will - after all they make money from drawing it up. However, the risk associated with having multiple wills should not be understated as I cannot think of an easier way of creating a situation that is subject to legal challenge. EU law, assuming it is EU citizens estates, should enable a single will to be valid so long as it meets the legal requirements in the member country in which it is signed. If people want belt and braces then my approach would be to get a single lawyer that is suitably skilled to draw up one will with sections within it that specifically address assets based in each country in which it is to be applied and also that the wills specifically mention the legal requirements of each country and how sections of the will apply in each country.

If a Portguese lawyer draws up a will for Portugal with no knowledge of UK law how can he be expected to get it right so that it does not clash with a UK will/legislation? Ditto the other way around. Surely the only way to be sure is to have just one lawyer that is versed in international law.
Let em! fight for it. :x all I ever go left to me was a ten shilling note and a set of false teeth, give them an incentive to rise to the top of the pack 8) Or nearly :lol:
pickwick
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Re: Portuguese Will

Post by pickwick »

Hi

See below for dual qualified Solicitor in UK and Portugal. Have an office in Faro and London. Website http://www.ndr.pt/team_detail.php?zID=1&aID=8

GEOFFREY GRAHAM
PARTNER
ggraham@ndr.pt

Born in Northern Ireland, October 1970. Graduated in Law with Honours at the University of Birmingham in 1993. Postgraduate Diploma in Legal Studies at the College of Law, York, 1994 – 95.

Joined NEVILLE DE ROUGEMONT in September 1996. Seconded to Beaumont & Son Solicitors (aviation law specialists) from 1997 to 1999 and admitted as a solicitor in that year. Posted to Lisbon office in June 1999. Senior Associate 2000. Partner 2003.

Solicitor of the Senior Courts of England and Wales, registered with the Portuguese Bar. Honorary Legal Advisor for the British Ambassador in Lisbon. Committee Member for Portugal for the European Air Law Association and Organising Committee for Annual Conference in Dublin in 2007; Founding Member and Committee Member for the Ireland Portugal Business Network; Member of Board of the Irish Association; Executive Committee Member for the Royal British Club. Other clubs and associations: British Portuguese Chamber of Commerce, Cape Verdian Portuguese Chamber of Commerce. Author of articles published in the Financial International Law Review and Tax Review. Contributor to the Encyclopaedia of Forms and Precedents, Getting the Deal Through: Aviation, Irish Property Buyer, Essential Lisbon, Essential Algarve, People & Business, the Resident. Invitation speaker for IFE (International Faculty for Executives)

Languages: English and Portuguese.

Head of the International Department.

Neville de Rougemont & Associados, Sociedade de Advogados, R.L. - Lisbon
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