Portuguese Will

Share experience regarding ownership of property and/or living in Portugal.

Moderators: kteee, Gambrinus, e-richard

Ma-Ja's
CVO Senior
CVO Senior
Posts: 454
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:17 pm
Location: Rua do Casino 36

Re: Portuguese Will

Post by Ma-Ja's » Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:44 am

Geoff wrote:
Geoff, would it be possible to have the name and contact details of your Portuguese lawyer please? I am assuming that the few hundred euros is per will - is that correct? Many thanks in advance
I THINK the lawyer charged about 200€ and the Notary a bit more...that was for Wills for my wife and I , basically the same, but that was a few years ago.

anyway, she is

Dra. Graca Palhau

At Rua Jose Antonio Marques Nº 3 - C, 2º B, 8500-700 Portimao
282 426 931

The email address we had is : graca.palhau@clix.pt
Expect its still current.


Geoff
Thanks for the info Geoff

Mike Burton
CVO Senior
CVO Senior
Posts: 162
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:56 pm

Re: Portuguese Will

Post by Mike Burton » Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:41 pm

Have been talking to tax specialists today with a view of reducing inheritance tax. They were unsure of the situation with our villa and said it would probably come into our UK inheritance laws - note - probably. I was informed when we made our Portuguese will eight years ago that the villa would come under Portuguese inheritance law. I now believe that it would be better to any problems al together and take out mortgages on all properties and enjoy spending the money, thus saving the kids any problems.

Geoff
CVO Legend
CVO Legend
Posts: 2190
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:50 pm
Location: Bristol & Sesmarias

Re: Portuguese Will

Post by Geoff » Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:25 pm

.....and said it would probably come into our UK inheritance laws - note - probably. I was informed when we made our Portuguese Will eight years ago that the villa would come under Portuguese inheritance law.
Think they are both right........any Portuguese IHT being offset against any UK IHT...much as Portuguese Income Tax is offset against UK Income Tax......but Portuguese IHT should be zero IF Portuguese assets left to spouse/children, as I understand it.

As for UK IHT , if you are " domiciled" in the UK, then IHT covers worldwide assets....so no escape!

Geoff
CVO Legend
CVO Legend
Posts: 2190
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:50 pm
Location: Bristol & Sesmarias

Re: Portuguese Will

Post by Geoff » Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:23 pm

Going from memory, the English Will explicitly excludes Portuguese Assets and vice-versa with the Portuguese one, but will have to check when i get back.
Well, back home, and my memory was right...the UK Will specifically excludes Portuguese assets and the Portuguese one only covers Portuguese assets.

So, my beneficiaries should be Ok I reckon.

Geoff

widge
CVO Legend
CVO Legend
Posts: 2888
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:02 am
Location: Bristol & Sesmarias

Re: Portuguese Will

Post by widge » Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:02 pm

There is new law called Brussels IV which came into force 17 August last year

It effects people with holiday homes aboard. Under this new legislation you can elect a choice of law to apply to foreign assets, such as holiday homes and if you elect the law of England then you can validly exclude the law of Portugal. This would avoid you having to have a Portuguese will.

All that you need do is have a will for you which says "I choose the law of England and Wales to govern succession to my assets, rights and obligations as a whole, including any not disposed of by this will. I am a United Kingdom National who is most closely connected with the jurisdiction of England and Wales."

Hopefully that might save people paying Portuguese solictors inflated rates for an unnecessary piece of paper, unless of course, you actually want Portuguese inheritance law to apply to your assets?

biffa
CVO Master
CVO Master
Posts: 1464
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2003 3:36 pm
Location: Lagoa and Portimão
Contact:

Re: Portuguese Will

Post by biffa » Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:15 pm

Without wanting to rebut what Widge says I think it needs a little clarification and I would suggest a Portuguese Will is still a good thing to have if you have Portuguese sited assets in your own name whether you are resident here or not. Having a Portuguese Will can save much bureaucracy if you die intestate or rely on a Will drawn up under the laws of another country e.g. UK
The law Widge refers to took effect as of August 17th 2015 whereby a citizen of another country who owns property in a participating EU state can choose which country’s law will apply. This concerns certain aspects of their will, including who can inherit. They can choose either the law of the country where they are normally resident, or of their country of nationality, or of one of their nationalities if they have several. The rules about taxation of inheritance will not change.
For these rules to apply, you must take action during your lifetime. This means stating in your will which law will apply to your property.
If you do not make an explicit choice, the law of the country where you are normally resident will apply. Thus if you were resident in Portugal and did not make such a statement it could be that Portuguese law would apply.
Always best to ask your lawyer in fact.

widge
CVO Legend
CVO Legend
Posts: 2888
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:02 am
Location: Bristol & Sesmarias

Re: Portuguese Will

Post by widge » Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:12 pm

I would suggest a Portuguese Will is still a good thing to have if you have Portuguese sited assets in your own name whether you are resident here or not. Having a Portuguese Will can save much bureaucracy if you die intestate or rely on a Will drawn up under the laws of another country e.g. UK
On the contrary biffa having a will, Portuguese or English, means you can't die intestate. Having two wills one English & one Portuguese can create problems unless the assets to which each apply are clearly identified. Furthermore it is an unnecessary and costly business getting a Portuguese will drawn up. The whole point of the new legislation is to give owners of foreign assets more control over inheritance issues, I doubt many will opt for multiple wills when the new legislation has been broadly adopted across the EU (UK, Ireland & Denmark opted out).

This description may help further understanding.....................

Brussels IV in a nutshell

The revolutionary step under Brussels IV is to unify the succession law which applies to an estate, rather than allowing any number of succession laws to (possibly) apply to different assets in different circumstances.

For states that have implemented the Regulation, the default position under it is that the law of the country in which the deceased was 'habitually resident' will apply to his or her succession. This law applies unless the deceased was "manifestly more closely connected" with another state, in which case the law of this latter state would apply instead. Precisely what "manifestly more closely connected" means is not entirely clear, but it is anticipated that this latter test will only be applied in exceptional circumstances.

Crucially, the law applied under these initial tests can be overridden by an express election (usually in a Will) for the law of the individual's nationality to apply. If the individual has more than one nationality, he or she may choose between nationalities (for example, a UK resident non-domiciliary who has taken UK nationality could choose to apply either UK law or the law of domicile). In theory, this election will enable an individual to succession plan with complete certainty over which laws will apply to the estate.

This is, potentially, a significant relief for individuals who own property on the continent and are also nationals of countries which do not have a forced heirship regime, such as the UK or the US. For these individuals, electing for the law of their nationality to apply will allow them to circumvent the forced heirship provisions prevalent in the majority of European civil-law jurisdictions (whereby certain individuals must receive a pre-determined share of the estate, potentially resulting in additional unnecessary tax exposure).

Care will still need to be taken to consider similar provisions in the law of nationality, such as the Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975 in the UK.

Geoff
CVO Legend
CVO Legend
Posts: 2190
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:50 pm
Location: Bristol & Sesmarias

Re: Portuguese Will

Post by Geoff » Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:26 pm

...mmmmmm, and what happens if one relies on Brussels IV and Brexit wins the day on June23 ?.....anyway, we have the 2 now so hopefully won't need to change, come what may!

Post Reply