Renting : Social Security Payments

Share experience regarding ownership of property and/or living in Portugal.

Moderators: e-richard, kteee, Gambrinus


Re: Renting : Social Security Payments

Postby Geoff » Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:30 pm

I am still sitting on my hands and - hopefully - under the radar.


My understanding is that the Portuguese authorities will levy Social Security from 1 Jan 2016 to everyone who pays Portuguese Income Tax on property income UNLESS they can produce this A1.

So, not sure that hand-sitting is an option?
Geoff
CVO Master
CVO Master
 
Posts: 1752
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:50 pm
Location: Bristol & Sesmarias

Re: Renting : Social Security Payments

Postby Alison » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:41 am

Hmmm - our advisors Tax Angels have been hassling us about this A1 form all year. Like many others, I don't fit into any of their categories as I'm not retired and I don't pay any NI contributions in the UK so can't provide any of the following:

1. If Retired - pension statement;
2. If Employed – declaration confirming the payments made to social security in your home country (UK, Ireland, etc.);
3. If Self-employed – accountant declaration confirming yearly payment are being made to social security in your home country (UK, Ireland, etc.).

We went round in circles with letters to HMRC earlier this year with no resolution to this. We finally got through to a very helpful guy at HMRC a couple of weeks ago who, having access to my UK tax return records, over the phone changed my UK status to self employed for the small bit of teaching that I still do (but not enough to pay tax on), agreed that I don't need to pay additional Class 2 NI payments as income too low and then gave me a fax number to send the completed CA8421 form to, suggesting I ask them to treat it as a matter of urgency - their normal processing time is quoted as 3 months! We got the A1 certificate back within a week which I reckon was pretty good going. Have now given this to Tax Angels and hope that they know what to do with it and that this is the end of the matter - maybe wishful thinking?!
Alison
CVO Senior
CVO Senior
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 10:13 pm
Location: Haddenham, Bucks and QdP

Re: Renting : Social Security Payments

Postby PTBUXTON » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:30 pm

Rang the revenue a couple of weeks ago you require an A1 Form,to get this you need first apply for a CA8421I, current waiting period once the revenue are in receipt of said form CA8421I is (get this is 78 days) not 7/8 days 78 days.Now I bet that surprised you not.
PTBUXTON
CVO Senior
CVO Senior
 
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:28 pm
Location: Buxton Derbyshire

Re: Renting : Social Security Payments

Postby PTBUXTON » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:43 pm

PTBUXTON wrote:Rang the revenue a couple of weeks ago you require an A1 Form,to get this you need first apply for a CA8421I, current waiting period once the revenue are in receipt of said form CA8421I is (get this is 78 days) not 7/8 days 78 days.Now I bet that surprised you not.

Sorry everyone just noticed the previous entry
PTBUXTON
CVO Senior
CVO Senior
 
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:28 pm
Location: Buxton Derbyshire

Re: Renting : Social Security Payments

Postby Geoff » Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:57 am

current waiting period once the revenue are in receipt of said form CA8421I is (get this is 78 days)


I got a reply in "only 42 days"...only trouble is, they say I don't work in the UK....which is true....but if the Portuguese think I am (self) employed renting out the house there, perhaps I can persuade the HMRC that I am self-employed in the UK doing the same?

But if so, am I liable to pay Class 2 NI payments if retired and, are these more expensive than the Portuguese Social Security?
Geoff
CVO Master
CVO Master
 
Posts: 1752
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:50 pm
Location: Bristol & Sesmarias

Re: Renting : Social Security Payments

Postby widge » Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:17 am

Geoff wrote:
current waiting period once the revenue are in receipt of said form CA8421I is (get this is 78 days)


But if so, am I liable to pay Class 2 NI payments if retired and, are these more expensive than the Portuguese Social Security?


That's exactly the point I entered the discussion with, so still sitting tight !
widge
CVO Legend
CVO Legend
 
Posts: 2854
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:02 am
Location: Bristol & Sesmarias

Re: Renting : Social Security Payments

Postby Geoff » Sat May 07, 2016 6:01 pm

An update...the accountants came up with lots of Portuguese forms to sign, but after about 4 months the Lisbon Tax/Social Security say that these forms ( plus various UK tax forms saying we don't need to pay NI) aren't good enough and you need an A1 if working or a P1 if a pensioner.

I located a reference to this :

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/social-security-forms/index_en.htm#

But can't see how to get the form....anyone had any success?
Geoff
CVO Master
CVO Master
 
Posts: 1752
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:50 pm
Location: Bristol & Sesmarias

Re: Renting : Social Security Payments

Postby logicbob » Sat May 07, 2016 7:05 pm

Geoff, the P1 is the form that you received when you retired stating how much they were going to pay you, so I am reliably informed.

The A1 have no idea.
logicbob
CVO Master
CVO Master
 
Posts: 1618
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:26 pm
Location: Hertfordshire / Vale De Milho

Re: Renting : Social Security Payments

Postby Geoff » Sun May 08, 2016 9:24 am

Geoff, the P1 is the form that you received when you retired stating how much they were going to pay you, so I am reliably informed.

The A1 have no idea.


Thanks logicbob, I will have to rummage in my files when I get home.

The A1 is the form that could prove you pay UK NI if you are working in the UK.....there's a link above here on how to apply for one.
Geoff
CVO Master
CVO Master
 
Posts: 1752
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:50 pm
Location: Bristol & Sesmarias

Re: Renting : Social Security Payments

Postby e-richard » Sun May 08, 2016 9:41 am

Geoff wrote:...you need an A1 if working or a P1 if a pensioner.

I located a reference to this :

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/social-security-forms/index_en.htm#

Thanks, that is very helpful Geoff.

But has anyone worked out how to acquire a form P1 from the UK DWP ?
e-richard
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 2976
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2003 4:18 pm
Location: Surrey and Carvoeiro

Re: Renting : Social Security Payments

Postby Geoff » Sun May 08, 2016 9:50 am

But has anyone worked out how to acquire a form P1 from the UK DWP ?


Well, if Logicbob is correct, it will be sitting in my file when i get back.....but if you look at the Dept of Work & Pensions website, there's an email enquiry form you can send to your Pensions Office ( post code dependent) ...I had already done this yesterday and asked for a P1.

Not holding my breath, but will update with any news.
Geoff
CVO Master
CVO Master
 
Posts: 1752
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:50 pm
Location: Bristol & Sesmarias

Re: Renting : Social Security Payments

Postby logicbob » Sun May 08, 2016 9:52 am

e-richard wrote:
Geoff wrote:...you need an A1 if working or a P1 if a pensioner.

I located a reference to this :

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/social-security-forms/index_en.htm#

Thanks, that is very helpful Geoff.

But has anyone worked out how to acquire a form P1 from the UK DWP ?



Richard, as far as know there is no such form as a P1, I tried every department in the UK government and could not get anyone to tell me what it was. They just keep passing you on to the next department. The form that has been accepted in Portugal is the one that you receive when you retire advising you of your pension payments which is Form BR 2198.
logicbob
CVO Master
CVO Master
 
Posts: 1618
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:26 pm
Location: Hertfordshire / Vale De Milho

Re: Renting : Social Security Payments

Postby Geoff » Wed May 18, 2016 10:01 am

The form that has been accepted in Portugal is the one that you receive when you retire advising you of your pension payments which is Form BR 2198.


Well, I'm back in the UK and have found my BR2198.

It doesn't look vastly different from the annual BR5899 you get from the DWP saying what the amount is for the coming year, but if you tink the BR2198 might work.......

No news from DWP on a P1....
Geoff
CVO Master
CVO Master
 
Posts: 1752
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:50 pm
Location: Bristol & Sesmarias

Re: Renting : Social Security Payments

Postby logicbob » Thu May 19, 2016 9:27 am

Geoff wrote:
The form that has been accepted in Portugal is the one that you receive when you retire advising you of your pension payments which is Form BR 2198.


Well, I'm back in the UK and have found my BR2198.

It doesn't look vastly different from the annual BR5899 you get from the DWP saying what the amount is for the coming year, but if you tink the BR2198 might work.......

No news from DWP on a P1....



Geoff, you are correct I have just checked mine and the form BR 2198 is the first form and all subsequent forms are BR 5899. All I can say is that it has been accepted up to now but this is Portugal we are talking about so good luck. Let us know how you get on.
logicbob
CVO Master
CVO Master
 
Posts: 1618
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:26 pm
Location: Hertfordshire / Vale De Milho

Re: Renting : Social Security Payments

Postby Geoff » Thu May 19, 2016 9:38 am

All I can say is that it has been accepted up to now but this is Portugal we are talking about so good luck. Let us know how you get on.


Thanks....but the current year's BR5899 along with the current HMRC Tax code form ( saying NI not applicable) didn't work, so am not holdinmg my breath!

Worst case scenario, how much is the Portuguese Social Security payment, anyone know please?
Geoff
CVO Master
CVO Master
 
Posts: 1752
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:50 pm
Location: Bristol & Sesmarias

PreviousNext

Return to Property owners forum / Portugal living.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 2 guests