Changes to the reporting of letting income

Share experience regarding ownership of property and/or living in Portugal.
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Cook Family
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Re: Changes to the reporting of letting income

Post by Cook Family »

We received the same email from Sovereign today, offering to record the names of our renters for 'only 25 euros per entry'.
Now, as we rent our property out through Quinta do Paraiso management, we may have many different renters per year. We will be clarifying with Sovereign, but it seems to me that this could be (yet another) considerable expense unless I'm mistaken about the requirements.
biffa
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Re: Changes to the reporting of letting income

Post by biffa »

SEF reporting. You only need to do this if you are registered under the Alojamento Local (AL) regime and let your house here for tourism use.
Cook Family
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Re: Changes to the reporting of letting income

Post by Cook Family »

We are registered for AL as we let our property via QdP, so we will have to conform to this legislation. Yet another layer level of bureaucracy - I thought it was a 'simplified tax regime'?
biffa
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Re: Changes to the reporting of letting income

Post by biffa »

Perhaps QdP are already complying? Many villa managers or agencies may be dealing with this.
Cook Family
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Re: Changes to the reporting of letting income

Post by Cook Family »

Yes - it turns out that QdP are reporting rental visitors on our behalf. We had to ask Sovereign for clarification first though!
spook
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Re: Changes to the reporting of letting income

Post by spook »

Would you be kind enough to pass onto me the name and contact no of the company who manage Quinta do Paraiso? Many thanks :)
pato
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Re: Changes to the reporting of letting income

Post by pato »

I work on the principal that whatever legislation is passed just forget it because they'll change it next week, no-one in Portugal knows what they're doing. :lol:
Cook Family
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Re: Changes to the reporting of letting income

Post by Cook Family »

Pato - just keeping up with the non-stop communication and invoices from Sovereign is a job in itself!

Spook - QdP is run by the on-site management team. If you are looking for a long-term rental you could contact Conni Leibner: reservas@quinta-do-paraiso.pt in the first instance.
LICY
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Re: Changes to the reporting of letting income

Post by LICY »

pato wrote:I was under the impression that you could only pay tax in one European country, paying in the UK in the top 40% bracket am I paying too much and can I claim a refund? :roll:
pato that is not right. You initially pay Portuguese tax on rentals, then when submitting to UK they decide if they should take extra as its income. it makes no difference if the money is received into the UK or Portugal. Our rentals are sterling into a UK account. We pax tax on the rentals in both countries.
LICY
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Re: Changes to the reporting of letting income

Post by LICY »

mug wrote:Can anyone give me any further info please?
I've just received an email from Sovereign offering to undertake the reporting requirements to SEF - and its come as total "news" to me!
Also as we aren't Portuguese Residents but come to our 2nd home for at least 3 months each year do we need to "report" ourselves??
Seems I am way behind on this thread, however I would just say when we complete a tax form in the UK following paying the Portuguese their required tax first we are required to confirm how many or letting nights for guests and how many for us. On that basis our outgoings are calculated, ie if we go 1/4 of the total nights the outgoings are likewise reduced. In other words the nights we stay we cannot get a tax allowance on water, electric etc.
RichardHenshall
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Re: Changes to the reporting of letting income

Post by RichardHenshall »

mug wrote:Can anyone give me any further info please?
I've just received an email from Sovereign offering to undertake the reporting requirements to SEF - and its come as total "news" to me!
Also as we aren't Portuguese Residents but come to our 2nd home for at least 3 months each year do we need to "report" ourselves??
There is no requirement to report yourself or the presence of non-paying guests, regardless of nationality.
widge
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Re: Changes to the reporting of letting income

Post by widge »

RichardHenshall wrote:
mug wrote:Can anyone give me any further info please?
I've just received an email from Sovereign offering to undertake the reporting requirements to SEF - and its come as total "news" to me!
Also as we aren't Portuguese Residents but come to our 2nd home for at least 3 months each year do we need to "report" ourselves??
There is no requirement to report yourself or the presence of non-paying guests, regardless of nationality.
Does this apply in UK ? I understood that if you claim tax allowances on a personally owned rental holiday home then you also had to declare time spent there by yourselves as this would be treated as a benefit in kind - Company owned homes being exempt.
bruce
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Re: Changes to the reporting of letting income

Post by bruce »

After long thoughts and considerations I think we will stick with our place in the English Lakes.
Ok we don't get the weather but far less complications!
RichardHenshall
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Re: Changes to the reporting of letting income

Post by RichardHenshall »

widge wrote:
RichardHenshall wrote:
mug wrote:Can anyone give me any further info please?
I've just received an email from Sovereign offering to undertake the reporting requirements to SEF - and its come as total "news" to me!
Also as we aren't Portuguese Residents but come to our 2nd home for at least 3 months each year do we need to "report" ourselves??
There is no requirement to report yourself or the presence of non-paying guests, regardless of nationality.
Does this apply in UK ? I understood that if you claim tax allowances on a personally owned rental holiday home then you also had to declare time spent there by yourselves as this would be treated as a benefit in kind - Company owned homes being exempt.
What I should have said was "There is no requirement to report, to SEF, yourself or the presence of non-paying guests, regardless of nationality."

There are two threads current about reporting requirements and they've begun to overlap.

The reporting to SEF (Serviço de Estrangeiros e Fronteiras) is ostensibly about collecting statistics relating to foreign (paying) tourists and the whereabouts of those tourists, rather than about the income (though most of us would suspect otherwise). The apportionment between 'business' and 'personal' use as described by LICY above applies to UK income tax calculations and also, I believe, to Portuguese IVA declarations as you can't reclaim IVA on your personal consumption of electricity etc. I have yet to tackle IVA, due to having estimated income for this (first) year under the new simplified regime at less than 10.000€.
LICY
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Re: Changes to the reporting of letting income

Post by LICY »

RichardH, whilst I have not got a clue of all the ins and outs of the Portuguese IVA as the accountant deals with this and we send everything to him with IVA, he has not asked us how long we spend in the villa, it is only our UKaccountant that has.

I am therefore assuming the Portuguese end we get all IVA, however it will be dependent on the IVA in and out. This is what our accountant said when I asked about quarters we paid out more IVA than we took in. "We can only claim the VAT back, if we have credit for at least 12 consecutive months, our when it higher then € 3.0000." Hope this helps.
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