Tolls!

Share experience regarding ownership of property and/or living in Portugal.
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redford
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Re: Tolls!

Post by redford »

Yet to experience the new A22 tolls?

Will do next month, sounds like there may be even less traffic on A22 so an additional 5 euros each way to get us from and to airport will be well spent?
shanagarry
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Re: Tolls!

Post by shanagarry »

redford wrote:so an additional 5 euros each way to get us from and to airport will be well spent?
Don't forget to factor in the time you waste in the Post Office trying to pay it :D
redford
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Re: Tolls!

Post by redford »

Will be picking up usual Car Hire so be interesting to see how they handle it? :wink:
Polli62
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Re: Tolls!

Post by Polli62 »

There is a honking protest on the 125 from Boliqueime to Faro on the 8th March starting supposedly around 16.30hrs so anyone using this road around that time to get to the airport just beware. Should be quite noisy, ear plugs advised :lol:
Bruce Wallis
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Re: Tolls!

Post by Bruce Wallis »

Will those charming young ladies who stand by the roadside in that area join in the moaning??? :wink:
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Re: Tolls!

Post by biffa »

It seems the tolls are ilegal from the point of view of the EU and Portugal is being taken to task over that.
shanagarry
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Re: Tolls!

Post by shanagarry »

biffa wrote:It seems the tolls are ilegal from the point of view of the EU and Portugal is being taken to task over that.
I wouldn't be taking too much notice of that. I seem to remember they were similarly reprimanded over the application of Special Car Tax some 3 years ago - having being told by the Brusselcrats to discontinue the practice - they are still applying it today having fought it in the courts. Given the current dire state of the Portuguese economy I don't believe there is any real prospect of a rethink any time soon.

It would be very interesting to see the income figures and usage statistics for the tolls since their introduction. The press report a massive reduction in traffic - but it would be very helpful to see what that means. Certainly every time I use the A22 (at various times of the day between Carvoeiro and The Airport) I can't say I notice any difference now than the pre-tolls era :)
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Re: Tolls!

Post by Bruce Wallis »

The consensus is that traffic levels on the A22 were about 70% down in January,and between 50 and 60% currently.

However traffic levels on the N125 are up massively...my own experience suggests more than 50%
but I think the A22 will be busier in the summer when people abandon the traffic jams on the N125
shanagarry
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Re: Tolls!

Post by shanagarry »

Bruce Wallis wrote:The consensus is that traffic levels on the A22 were about 70% down in January,and between 50 and 60% currently.
Bruce - where did this data come from? I have never seen traffic volumes on the A22 reported in specific terms and while what you write regarding the 125 is probably correct - it would help the current argument which has seen the Brusselcrats side with those opposed to the tolls to test the viability of the entire concept.

In this morning's Algarve Daily News a government minister is fighting back claiming that Brussels will not sue them as they have threatened to do because they will understand the principle of the country's dire economic position supported by a claim that anybody using an amenity should pay for it.
sam
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Re: Tolls!

Post by sam »

shanagarry wrote: In this morning's Algarve Daily News a government minister is fighting back claiming that Brussels will not sue them as they have threatened to do because they will understand the principle of the country's dire economic position supported by a claim that anybody using an amenity should pay for it.
I have no objection to paying the tolls, once they make it possible for me to do so. We usually hire a car, but sometimes drive down through France and/or Spain in UK plate car. We have never had a problem paying for tolls in either of these countries nor Portugal - until now.
As the country is in such a dire economic position, the why are they not maximising income by making it possible to pay for this so called 'amenity'? :roll: :roll: :roll:
shanagarry
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Re: Tolls!

Post by shanagarry »

sam wrote:why are they not maximising income by making it possible to pay for this so called 'amenity'?
Sam - that is the conundrum on everybody's mind. I suspect in their own inimitable way they never stopped to look at the wider implications and have now ended up with the 'mother and father' of all fiascos. Furthermore they are playing the blame game - putting the responsibility on the previous government claiming they believed all the wrinkles had been 'ironed-out' and all they did was implement them.

The minister fighting back is claiming that the EU censure is to do with giving the locals a discount in the area of Aveiro and nothing to do with the charge to use the amenity. In short the authorities are not going to back off without a fight - something that will go on for some considerable time me thinks. In the meantime chaos will continue to reign :)
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Re: Tolls!

Post by Bruce Wallis »

shanagarry wrote:
Bruce Wallis wrote:The consensus is that traffic levels on the A22 were about 70% down in January,and between 50 and 60% currently.
Bruce - where did this data come from? I have never seen traffic volumes on the A22 reported in specific terms and while what you write regarding the 125 is probably correct - it would help the current argument which has seen the Brusselcrats side with those opposed to the tolls to test the viability of the entire concept.

In this morning's Algarve Daily News a government minister is fighting back claiming that Brussels will not sue them as they have threatened to do because they will understand the principle of the country's dire economic position supported by a claim that anybody using an amenity should pay for it.
I chose the word "consensus", on purpose.
It is the distillation of opinion, not hard data. Coming as it does from regular travelers, and a couple of car hire owners I know.

The nearest I can come to statistical evidence, is that I have sat near the Porches flyover, and counted vehicles passing in a short time, and from never more than 1 or 2 vehicles crossing in a given time, it has now slightly increased in the last month, but nothing like the traffic density of the pre-toll days.

On the issue of Portugal being fined by the EC.......that is laughable.
They have ignored euro edicts on things like the allowable charges on matriculating car registrations, and why not?? They charge 1000's, and risk a nominal fine per case, if challenged, of 100s.
That sounds like good business to me. Why should this latest deviation to the rules be any the less profitable!!
shanagarry
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Re: Tolls!

Post by shanagarry »

Bruce Wallis wrote:Coming as it does from regular travelers
I would class my self as a 'regular traveller' and I can honestly say that I see no difference in the traffic volumes at the times I travel. In the main I travel between 8.00am and 9.30am - usually on Tuesdays or Wednesdays each week. My return journeys are between 6.00pm and 8.00pm on Thursdays or Fridays and while the roads are quiet - I put that down to the time of year. It was no different last year - I believe.

I'm not seeking to open a debate on this matter - I believe the situation is one that every country has to face up to in these harsh economic times and its not negotiable - the authorities have no intention of backing down. The issue here is the haphazard way they have introduced the process and their continued mis-management of it - something that will not change in the foreseeable future - so get used to it :)
redford
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Re: Tolls!

Post by redford »

All sounds good fun!! :roll: :roll:
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Re: Tolls!

Post by PTBUXTON »

Bruce Wallis wrote:The consensus is that traffic levels on the A22 were about 70% down in January,and between 50 and 60% currently.

However traffic levels on the N125 are up massively...my own experience suggests more than 50%
but I think the A22 will be busier in the summer when people abandon the traffic jams on the N125

Spent 8 days in CVO last month although we missed using the A22 going and coming to the airport,using the n125 was'nt all that bad 55mins /1hr 10mins respectively.I would expect the journey times to be a little more later on in the year.On the subject of traffic levels on the A22 we travelled over and along side of it on several ocassions during our stop and counted a massive 9 cars 1 lorry and 2 vans using it.
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