Water Bills

[R.Wethereyet]

What a great website this is.

Sorry that I am coming to this debate late in the day, but I have just been checking my water bills for the year.

I, too, was charged the minimum amount (2.01) for 5 successive months and then hammered in September and October nearly all of the charges being at the highest tariff. (and no doubt timed to coincide with the hike in the IVA, which I guess will eventually be applied retrospectively).

My villa manager has so far failed to acknowledge that there is anything untoward here and merely says that he can only go with what is on the invoice.

It is unclear to me whether any of you have had a successful outcome after challenging the Camara. If not I would be very keen to join forces and seek a legal solution.

My villa is near the water tower in Sesmarias, and I am aware that there were quite significant disruptions to the water supply in August. Only after this did my bills go stratospheric. So it could well be down to both the Camar's incompetent (or cynical) bill managment and the meter spinning due to air in the system, but it would be very difficult to prove this.

I would be grateful for your updates.

You say your villa manager failed to acknowledge anything untoward and he can only go by the invoice.

Does he not check the meter on a regular basis, take his own readings, ring them through to the Camara. This seems to be a lack of proper management to me.

[andara]

No alf1956. I refer you back to the previous entries in this thread and all will become clear.

[andara]

.... and no R.Wethereyet. The abject performance of my villa manager has been a real eye opener and extremely disappointing. Numbered, his , are and days spring to mind.

[traveler]

Andara, we have experienced the exact same scenario that you have described. Our property manager has much to answer for as well.

[shanagarry]

Our property manager has much to answer for as well

Dare I say it - you have a lot to answer for - you took your eye off the ball. Blaming the property manager is a cop-out unless you have specific terms of reference that require them to alert you to abnormal charges. The reality being that your property manager (assuming s/he is Portuguese or an ex-pat resident) will not view these charges as abnormal because they are having to live with similar levels of cost.

Gone are the days when everything here was 'cheap' - everything, with few exceptions, is the same as the UK - in particular utilities. It is disappointing and worrying to get water charges when you only occupy your property for 12 or so weeks a year - but blaming the property manager is not the answer.

All too often on this Forum we see requests for recommendations for competent property management providers usually followed by price comparisons for the services being offered. If you pay a property management company (competent or otherwise) a menial amount to provide you with services without being specific as to the scope and extent of those services - don't be surprised when you get unexplained 'abnormal' charges.

My wife has just finished her first year of looking after a friend's property - arranging the gardener, the poolman and the maid (it is rented during the summer) as well as paying the bills and being on call in case something fails - as it does, is no easy task. As a result I can see why some of the property management providers here believe their job is done once the clients leave. The paperwork and administration is not something they can handle nor have they factored into their cost model - so going to the Multibanco to pay bills is about as much as they are prepared to do for the pittance they are being paid. I know it's their own fault for not costing it properly - as few of them lack the skills to cost a service provision and you then end up being at odds with them. They all know the market rate and many shave some off it to get the business knowing they will make more later by getting backhanders from tradesmen etc. The worst case scenario being they run off with your money - as has happened.

We have nothing to do with the property management industry but I frequently see examples of absent landlords being very pissed-off with the performance of their management provider when 'surprise' charges are levied. By paying a bit more - you can demand a service level and take the time to explain in great detail (in writing) what it is you expect of them and agree a payment structure that reflects their acceptable performance. Don't expect a proactive service provision if you are paying less than €200 per month (not including the gardener/poolman/maid) for an all encompassing facility - it just won't happen.

When planning to buy a property here - your due diligence should include a review of the previous 12 months utility charges and taxes - supported by the original invoices. That way you have an indication of the charges you are likely to face and can question the vendors as to the level of usage that expenditure reflects.

If you are getting a great service (including all the proactivity) for €200 per month - good for you - but make sure you are not paying for it elsewhere

[traveler]

Our property manager has much to answer for as well

Dare I say it - you have a lot to answer for - you took your eye off the ball. Blaming the property manager is a cop-out unless you have specific terms of reference that require them to alert you to abnormal charges. The reality being that your property manager (assuming s/he is Portuguese or an ex-pat resident) will not view these charges as abnormal because they are having to live with similar levels of cost.

Wrong. I do blame the property manager for failing to send the bill on to us, esp. when we correspond regularly via email. I do not blame her for failing to alert us to the size of the bill. Did I drop the ball because I didn't ask for the bill before it arrived when it is written in the contract that she should be sending them on? Perhaps, but this is in her job description and is part of the service we pay for.

Or was this just a plug for your wife's business?

[shanagarry]

Or was this just a plug for your wife's business?

It is not a business and never will be - just helping a friend

In essence you are agreeing with the point I made regarding 'terms of reference' and you appear to have covered that off - most people do not - well done.

Where does that leave you though? Are you paying a sensible price for the service you expect or are you paying a little and expecting a lot.

By the tone of your reply where you refer to 'Job Description' - it suggests that the property manager is your employee and would have a contract of employment or is she a contractor who provides a service for a fee? If she is an employee and you are considering replacing her - you could have employment laws to contend with. I suspect it is the latter - and you have a contract in which case you can deal with that quite easily within the termination provision or you agree a remedial solution - assuming she has the wherewithal to provide you with the proactive services you require.

Good luck

[andara]

Shanagarry you are a very ignorant, simplistic person... probably a subscriber to The Sun & The People. You have no knowledge of the contractual arrangements that I have with my villa managerand yet you make wild, childish assumption. You clearly have nothing useful to contribute, so go back to your Katey Price discipleship. :

[shanagarry]

you are a very ignorant, simplistic person

If you say so - I'm not the one with the large water bill

probably a subscriber to The Sun & The People

Most definitely not - The Mail and The Times are my preferred read

so go back to your Katey Price discipleship

Who?

You deserve all you get

[pickwick]

Hi Shanagarry and Andara

A bit OTT Andara and not very "Cleveley" to call Shanagarry ignorant when you are not so "Cleveley" yourself!! I quote gibberish from your posts:- "The abject performance", "you make wild, childish assumption" tut tut not very "Cleveley" and certainly not Queens English!!! All we need now is Wethereejit to get involved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pickwick

[shanagarry]

Pickwick - tread carefully as you will be the next to be blamed.

Cleveleys Man (Andara) - from the barren wastelands of the Fylde Coast is one of the breed who blames everything on others - not on his own ineptitude. I have first hand knowledge of similar beings in that remote are of the commonwealth - who display the same traits - it must be something they eat! I guess he sees MPs doing it so he follows - lemming style.

When I had the temerity to point out to him that the deal he has with his property manager is clearly not quite what he believes it to be - he starts to hurtle inane insults about. How could he be wrong - he gave her a 'Job Description' after all. It started off with the Property Manager - now it's me - you could be next.

Does anybody have Mazza's number - they would be well suited - then he would really have someone to blame.

They're not all locked up yet

[andara]

Oh dear, Shanagarry and Pickwick, you are obviously related (you have my sympathies). I was looking forward to some amusing banter today, but what a let down.

Pickwick, your attempt at an amusing play on words was almost funny..... No , I correct that, it was highly laughable.... but it would be better to leave this sort of thing to others.

Shanagarry, wow, how my wife and I nearly laughed. It could have been clever and funny, until you let yourself down by making reference to another forum member's posts. My villa manager is not a woman nor did I ever write anyone's job description (check the thread). It would be advisable for you to do your forum entries in the morning when you are possibly more alert, and definitely before your afternoon nap.

Anyaway, guys, my wife and I are very busy. She has the step to stone and I have the coal to shovel into the bunker , the pigeon coupe to clean out and the whippets to take for a walk on the beach.

Have a great Christmas and if you are ever passing Casa Andara and I am at home, please call in for a coffee or something stronger.

[sunman]

Shanagarry you are a very ignorant, simplistic person... probably a subscriber to The Sun & The People.

do you think it's possible that you asked for a little of what you got?

[pickwick]

Hi sunman

On the nail!!

As for you andara what is this "Anyaway" and this "the pigeon coupe"? You are struggling here with simple spelling aren't you? Why not try to post a reply without childish spelling errors? I know it will be difficult for you, but maybe "Eats, Shoots and Leaves" would help (it's a book not an invitation to dinner before you get too exited) but I am not sure it was published in LARGE PRINT WITH PICTURES TO COLOUR IN. No matter it probably would not help you!! As for Shanagarry and I being related, yes we are, we are both members of the human race, you however seem have more in common with Neanderthal Man or maybe Bigfoot?

Pickwick

PS Maybe the pigeons do have a coupe and not a coup? If so I would love to know the year, make and model!!!

[andara]

Oh Pickwick, Pickwick, Pickwick, what a card you arse (sorry I mean are, but there again....)

Here is a lesson in life for you. Are you sitting down?

It is highly unadvisable to criticise other people's spelling in public and never in such an aggressive way, as you only set yourself up for a fall sooner or later... in your case sooner. It is also a clear sign of a lack of class.

Just check your own spelling in your last post, and several others in the recent past.

Perhaps a wee dram too many last night??