Galp - Gas Tank

[shanagarry]

an unlet holiday home will not

We live here but I would be really interested to know how much you use and what you use it for as this will be our first winter here as a resident

[shanagarry]

I have just signed up with GALP for the supply of gas having compared them with BP.

To begin with here are a few details:

* One tank for domestic use holds one tonne of gas or 2,000 litres
* One standard domestic gas bottle (the tall bottle) holds 45 Kgs of gas
* One tank is equivalent to 22.22 bottles of gas @ €89.40 = €1,986.47 (incl. IVA)
* One refill of the tank costs €1,389.66 (incl IVA)

The basic commitment I am required to make is to consume 10.5 tonnes of gas in 5 years and if I don't - the period is extended to 7 years. I believe we will do that easily as our pool is heated by gas - which for now is an unknown quantity)

The tank is provided free of charge.

We are using (now that all the visitors have gone) 1 bottle every 6 weeks just to heat the water. We estimate that we would use an extra bottle per month during November to April for the radiators to bring our total gas consumption to 34 bottles/1.5 tonnes per annum or €3,039.60 - using the tank the cost will be €2,097.99 or a saving of 31%.

The installation cost is all included in the first fill at €1,389.66

The deal with BP - when they got their act together was:

* The tank cost €2,350 + IVA = €2,843.50 (to get a free tank I had to use 4 tonnes per month)

* A refill is €1,540 (Incl. IVA)

* A minimum term of 10 years with a minimum commitment to use 2.5 tonnes per annum

Doing the maths - on a like for like basis:

GALP: €2,097.99 for 5 years = €10,489.95

BP: Year 1 - €2,843.50 + €2,310 (for 5 years) = €14,393.50 (bear in mind the gas cost will increase if the quantity commitment for 10 years is not met.

Clearly the GALP facility is the least expensive, making a saving of 28% overall or a 32% saving on the litreage cost (€1.04 - tank plays €1.51- bottle)

Biffa made a point in an earlier post that this will only work for people resident here or those who believe they will use at least 22 bottles per annum - that would take some doing.

Comparing that to my Gas bills in the UK where I was paying £137 per month for the service (water, heating and cooking) - no cooking involved here - my monthly cost here is €174 (£151.30) so its more expensive - but worth it.

Finally, I found GALP to be the most efficient and commercial - to get to the conclusion from the time I made my online enquiry, calculating quantities and agreeing terms to signing the contract took a grand total of 5 working days. I first made contact with BP back in April - I suspect they were busy in the Gulf of Mexico. The GALP tank will be installed in two weeks - now that's not the Portuguese inefficiency I have come to expect (the tank's not installed and working yet - maybe I should hold off on the celebrations)

[widge]

Excellent explanation and very informative. Thank you for sharing this with us Shanagarry.

[shanagarry]

Well - we are keeping our fingers crossed that the tank will be working on Monday 20th December 2010 against an initial commitment of 5 weeks from placing the order.

My mail of September 23 was 'celebrating' the 5 days to supply and install the tank - that was indeed premature. The tank was lowered into position on December 10th - with 14 people in attendance. There has been some activity from various officials checking safety etc since then - but I have been told Monday 20th is I-Day - we'll see!

The reality is nearing 26 weeks and is a tale of woe - the bureaucracy - the lack of communication - the total absence of any time management and the absence of any care (€1,200 of damage to our drive) - has brought home to me the way things are done here. I guess I always knew it was going to be like this - but chose to believe that such things only happened to other people

[shanagarry]

The final chapter:

December 23rd at 12.30pm - the Galp gas facility to our home was completed and operating. From the time I contacted Galp to yesterday it was 101 days -that's standard according to the Galp man.

The tank is part-filled - 604 Kg (equivalent to 13.42 Kg bottles) at a cost of €821. In 45Kg bottles that would have cost €1,200.

[Martingee]

Thank you Shanagarry, very informative. I have just moved to Portugal after having a house (in the Loule area) for over twenty years and searched Google for 'gas tank Portugal' and came across your post.

Before we came my only concern was the cost of heating the house over the winter months and have just checked my gas consumption for the past two months. I knew it was high but after reading other posts I think something is VERY wrong. Ok, it's a large house with underfloor heating (pool not heated) run from 45k bottles. My calculation this morning showed 24 bottles in the past eight weeks and that's not a typo, one tonne per two months equals €1000.00 per month. And it's not even cold yet.

I've had the tubes pressure cleaned, the valves and thermostats checked but the average consumption doesn't change. I HAVE to change to a fixed tank. Any ideas out there as to why my usage is so high. All comments gratefully received

[shanagarry]

Hi Martin

In addition to the underfloor heating - is the gas heating your domestic water as well. I know from friends with underfloor heating that it does consume a lot of energy - but 24 x 45Kg bottles in 8 weeks is heavy and would suggest to me that you leave it on all the time?

You've undoubtedly read my story/tale of woe so I would suggest that you go to the Galp website http://www.galpenergia.com/PT/ProdutosS ... /Casa.aspx and speak to them after you are satisfied they have what you are looking for. They will help you calculate the cost and will send some people around to assess your usage.

Their customer service people (Lisbon based) are enormously helpful and speak good english - and you should get a call within a day or two. As you will have seen, it is not a simple matter and there is quite a bit of bureaucracy involved (along the same lines as planning) that might frustrate you. I kept on top of mine almost on a daily basis and it still took 101 days - bear that in mind. As it's January you are probably looking at March - just in time for the weather to warm up? By all means try the others BP and Repsol - but beware - their bureaucracy is apparently diabolical.

I will get the local Galp contact details on Monday (the file is with some friends who are speaking to Galp) and send them to you - but I believe they are technical people and are managed from Lisbon.

I hope that helps?

[shanagarry]

Martin

No need to wait until Monday, just found it in my diary - the guy's name is Paulo and his number is 92 704 9647

Good luck

[Martingee]

Shanagarry

Once again, many thanks. Yes, the hot water boiler is also gas and yes, the heating is on 24/7. I did this working on the principle that if the pipes cool down it will take more energy to get them up to temperature but leaving it on, each room thermostat would control it's valve. Now you mention it I'll give the other method a chance and run 12 hours on, 12 hours off.

Thanks for the Paulo contact - I'll phone him tomorrow.

Happy New Year

[rolf66]

Martingee, have you considered the posibility that you may not be getting the correct amount of gas in your bottles. We use gas for hot water and cooking and have noticed that our bottles do not last as long as they did,with no change in our lifestyle. Could this be possible?

[Globetrotter]

Hi Shangarry,
I haven't been around much so missed this topic. We may have discussed it before? Anyway, nicely done. We have a bulk tank from Galp buried in our garden and it works well enough. When we did the remodel, we opted for an underfloor, electric heated arrangement as I hate cold floors. After the first month of 600Eur plus electric bills, we fine tuned the system and have it heat the floors in the night and early morning. It takes the chill off for the day. We use gas fired radiators in the older part of the house which also works well. So, a combo system. We were happy with Galp's service. They will expedite delivery even around the holidays, if you are close to running out.

[Martingee]

To Rolf66

You could well be right for normally I get between 4.5 and 6 days per pair of bottles depending on number of bods taking baths, amount of cooking and drops in outside temperature. But the last pair lasted just three days with no change of circumstances. I intend to take this up with my BP supplier and, as I am probably his biggest residential customer, I expect one free bottle at the very least..... but I won't hold my breath.

These forums really work well when used as they should be. I hope no one objects to an outsider from Loule occasionally joining in!

By the way Shanagarry, Paulo is coming to see me tomorrow - thanks again.

[shanagarry]

Martin

Hope it all works out well with Paulo.

Just looking at your reply - if you have a lot of people taking baths - that would go someway to explain the heavy usage. Is your water bill - 'steep'?

Be well

[Martingee]

No water bill - borehole until of course the Camera decides to meter all boreholes

[shanagarry]

Martin

Thanks for your input - everybody is welcome on here - it's good to get input from other areas