We noticed this morning that the Irish Times is closed and the building is up for rent ??.

How does this happen? they seemed reasonably successful over the last few years, in my experience it's usually the tax problems that kills them off.
I always remember my late father in law an ex-boilermaker at Lairds, who, many moons ago, uttered these never to be forgotten words to me when I was younger, I'd been passed by a beautiful car and I said "one day I'll have a car like that" and his reply was "If you had half the money he owed on that car you'd be a rich man" I've never forgotten that profound statement.
Let's hope they've not had any tradgedy in their lives, I always thought the staff and management were fine there.

Very sad news. It was an excellent premises and very friendly. I am sure there will be eager prospective new owners/leasees. It is a very good location too!

Heard that following Grahams bad health recently he has given up the business and gone to South Africa.All the bar equipment has been taken out so can not see it opening again this year as a bar.
.

James Faro wrote:I am sure there will be eager prospective new owners/leasees.

I very much doubt it and more importantly I believe there will be others go before we get to the summer. They cannot make a profit - because there's far to many of them.

We have been in town over the past 3 nights - the bars that are open are predominantly empty - others have one or two in - at a time when there are some people around - but they are not going out. At 10.00pm last night the town was deserted - the Carvoeiro Bar and Hemingways were both empty and Harry's Bar had two people in and the summer is still a long way off. It doesn't look promising.

That is 'sad'.

shanagarry wrote:I very much doubt it and more importantly I believe there will be others go before we get to the summer. They cannot make a profit - because there's far to many of them.

It is the silly rents that the property owners/lease holders are asking that are forcing the places in the village to close, if you are paying €3000 a month for rent before you even open the door, it is certain you will not make any profit

Jaylay wrote:

shanagarry wrote:I very much doubt it and more importantly I believe there will be others go before we get to the summer. They cannot make a profit - because there's far to many of them.

It is the silly rents that the property owners/lease holders are asking that are forcing the places in the village to close, if you are paying €3000 a month for rent before you even open the door, it is certain you will not make any profit

The Algarve, like many resorts in Spain is in a bit of a death spiral;

- the season, although 6 months in theory, Easter till October half term, is actually much shorter; pensioners & families with pre school age children aren't going to keep the bar & restaurants full outside school holidays. And with the advent of 23% IVA and the resultant price hikes in food & drink lots of holiday makers are staying in more & self catering.

- I don't know what the rents are, it would be interesting to hear from a restauranteur on here; but in the end market forces will prevail; if the cost of rent & wages exceeds income then businesses will fold. I understand that Safari Bar has closed along with Irish Times.

- The good news, if there is any, is that old restaurants, still run by their Portuguese owners, don't have rent to worry about & so can continue.

- the death spiral is for the foreigners; lots have sadly already had to close their businesses, lots are being undercut by Portuguese labour, and now realising 'the dream' of coming to the Algarve and running a bar or restaurant is being squeezed to the point of being impossible; hard times

good post Sunman. The 23% vat on food and service industry is self defeating and the sooner the Portuguese government recognise this the better.

is there any other country charging this amount of vat on the service/tourist industry? ( or indeed on energy consumption, which is also a major factor in running a restaurant/hotel/bar )


Spain
The Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy announced that general VAT – including items such as clothing and cigarettes – would be raised from 18 per cent to 21 percent to combat the country’s mounting economic difficulties.
VAT for the leisure industry, which is at a reduced rate, will increase from eight per cent to 10 per cent, covering accommodation, food and drink at restaurants, hotels and bars, as well as processed food.

Ireland (normal rate on hospitality services 13.5%)
The temporary VAT rate of 9 per cent on tourism services such as restaurant meals and hotel accommodation will remain in place until the end of 2013, Minister for Tourism Leo Varadkar told the Dáil today.
He said the policy had worked well, bringing an increase in employment to the sector and lowering prices.


France (though I don't know how up to date it is)
EU finance ministers today gave the go-ahead for France to slash the cost of restaurant meals via a cut in VAT to 5.5% in a move to boost consumer confidence and spending as the European economy faces its worst slump for 80 years.

The rules on Greece , well they are pure Greek - locals to pay 23%, tourists to pay 6.5%. Try implementing that

And I thought it was just our politicians that have stupid ideas ! !

I know, you couldn't make it up

tagged: all-inclusive packages, evangelos venizelos, Finance Minister, Greece, tourism, VAT 13% 6.5% 23%

Greek VAT Insanity: 6.5% for Foreigners, 23% for Greeks

Only been in there a couple of times in our visits to CVO - not my kind of bar to be truthful.

But having said that i think CVO has a certain type of visitor that prefers, most nights, to stay at their rented villas..and who can blame them if they're paying good money to rent. Not everyone, granted.

Why all the doom and gloom shanagarry.
January is always very quiet in Carvoeiro. Many premises are closed and open again in March.
They have done this for many years. Compare the population of Carvoeiro in January to August
Regarding profit, the profit is to be made from March to October.
The core of restaurants & bars in Carvoeiro are there for many years and you will always have some that will come and go.
I am sure that 2013 in Carvoeiro will be as good as 2012.
Lets all get out and support the local restaurants,bars,shops... there is no point in complaining when they are gone .........

I thought it was relatively busy over Xmas. The weather helped.

Being in the Travel Business we have noticed a considerable increase in people booking flights for 2013
So I am going to take a chance and say that I think 2013 will be a much better year for Carvoeiro and the Algarve than 2012

Last year was the 'staycation' year, but after people 'enjoyed' the weather in the UK, its back to sunnier climes for 2013
Lets be positive

We had a long discussion this morning with a Portuguese family with a number of interests in the tourist market.
The have rental properties but are finding it almost impossible to compete with the " All Inclusive " hotel offers for long term winter visitors which start as low as 25 euros/person/night.
WIth competition such as this it is no wonder that some bars etc are going out of business.